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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Mystery of Union By: Dan Stone

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 Jesus Christ is our LIFE

We humans are "clay pots" "branches," "temples," "bodies," and "slaves," and we can never take the place of our Creator. Jesus never said that He was the Father. He said that He and the Father were one, but the works He did were not His but the Father's.

We are not God the creator nor are we Jesus. We are His creation and we will never be God or Jesus.

Jesus Christ is our LIFE and His LIFE can be expressed in us and through us.

 2016/8/19 10:52









 Re: Jesus Christ is our LIFE

Quote:
by forrests on 2016/8/19 10:24:14

Can you clarify, brother Julius? Peter fell into a trance...no? And others (such as Paul) had visions...



You guys are doing a good job explaining everything. I will touch on trances and visions, later. As with everything from the Lord, there are counterfeits.

 2016/8/19 11:50
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re: Jesus Christ is our LIFE

I think that's what I am trying to get to, that this Union is one which is dependent on faith from beginning to end, and that as the branch is grafted in so it can be cut off?
This Union is not automatic? Christ in us lives through us, but not automatically but by the co- operation of faith and obedience on our side...

Trying to make sense of spiritual realities 😄

Blessings,


_________________
William

 2016/8/19 13:28Profile
forrests
Member



Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re:

Quote:
by Julius21 on 2016/8/19 8:50:07

Quote:
by forrests on 2016/8/19 10:24:14

Can you clarify, brother Julius? Peter fell into a trance...no? And others (such as Paul) had visions...



You guys are doing a good job explaining everything. I will touch on trances and visions, later. As with everything from the Lord, there are counterfeits.



Thanks! I assume you mean like trances through which one claims to be so united with Christ so as to be a special manifestation of Him and acting as Him on the earth (or some other new age mysticism), but I wanted to be sure.


_________________
~ Forrest

 2016/8/19 13:55Profile









 Re:

What this heretic teaches is just what John Lennon sang in 1968

I Am the Walrus The Beatles

"I am he as you are he as you are me
And we are all together"

Yup same nonsense with a religious twist

 2016/8/19 14:21









 Re:

Quote:
by forrests on 2016/8/19 13:55:32

Quote:
by Julius21 on 2016/8/19 8:50:07

Quote:
by forrests on 2016/8/19 10:24:14

Can you clarify, brother Julius? Peter fell into a trance...no? And others (such as Paul) had visions...



You guys are doing a good job explaining everything. I will touch on trances and visions, later. As with everything from the Lord, there are counterfeits.



Thanks! I assume you mean like trances through which one claims to be so united with Christ so as to be a special manifestation of Him and acting as Him on the earth (or some other new age mysticism), but I wanted to be sure.



Yes, that is definitely not what I believe Peter was experiencing. I believe Peter was mesmerized while awake at a vision that God was showing him.

We are joined to Christ by faith, not by practicing trances or hypnotism.

 2016/8/19 14:41









 One Nature

Here is a further elaboration of our life in Christ.

There's a deep rut in the Christian faith, as most believers experience it. It's like a ditch that you run your car into and can't get out of. Unless God tows a believer out of the rut, he or she will never fully live out of their union with Christ.

The rut is this: most of us believe that in the depths of our being we are both good and bad. Or, to put it in theological terms, we are both righteous and sinful. Using a common illustration, we believe that we have within us both a white dog and a black dog, a good nature and a bad nature, that are fighting for control.

But that is not true. It is vital that we know it's not true, because if we believe that we are both righteous and sinful, it will be impossible to live out of our union with Christ and to rest, trusting that He lives through us moment by moment. Instead, we will be focused on ourselves, on getting our act together, on winning the war that supposedly rages within us, trying to suppress the bad part of us so that the good part will reflect the character of Christ. This endless self-effort is the complete opposite of what Paul wrote:

I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God... (Galatians 2:20)

The only way out of this dilemma, of believing that we are both good and bad, is to understand that the realm of the spirit, above the line, is singular. It is one. The realm of appearances, below the line, is a duality. It is two.

In the realm of appearances, there is constant evidence of good and evil, both outside and inside us. If we judge by appearances, we arrive at the logical conclusion that we are both good and bad. That looks entirely valid. Christians have believed this for centuries. Except for a small minority who have come to know their true identity in Christ, the whole Christian world accepts the lie. Unfortunately, although something may not be true above the line, if below the line we think it is true, it still controls us. We must choose to live out of what is singular, rather than what is dual.

The realm of the spirit, the singular realm, is eternal reality. That is where our spirit being lives, and where our true identity is settled forever. The realm of appearance, although we must live in it in the here and now, is false as far as our identity goes. All of life depends on which realm is ultimate reality to you: the realm of spirit or the realm of appearances. That's going to determine what you believe and how you live.

Choosing to believe that you are not both good and evil can be difficult. All of the external proof, all of the apparent evidence, all of the sight, supports the opposite: that you have two natures. "You are good, yes, a little good, but boy, you are still wicked; you are still evil." Only the Holy Spirit can reveal to you that you only have one nature, not two. In the core of your being you are not both righteous and sinful; you are only righteous.

From: Stone, Dan, The Rest of the Gospel: When the partial Gospel has worn you out. Dallas: One Press. 2000. pgs. 89,90.

 2016/8/19 14:45
forrests
Member



Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re:

Quote:
by Julius21 on 2016/8/19 11:41:51

Quote:
by forrests on 2016/8/19 13:55:32

Quote:
by Julius21 on 2016/8/19 8:50:07

Quote:
by forrests on 2016/8/19 10:24:14

Can you clarify, brother Julius? Peter fell into a trance...no? And others (such as Paul) had visions...



You guys are doing a good job explaining everything. I will touch on trances and visions, later. As with everything from the Lord, there are counterfeits.



Thanks! I assume you mean like trances through which one claims to be so united with Christ so as to be a special manifestation of Him and acting as Him on the earth (or some other new age mysticism), but I wanted to be sure.



Yes, that is definitely not what I believe Peter was experiencing. I believe Peter was mesmerized while awake at a vision that God was showing him.

We are joined to Christ by faith, not by practicing trances or hypnotism.



(I kind of wanted to see what would happen if we just kept on "quoting" one another. :-D )

I see what you mean, we don't seek or practice trances and the like, but if God gives them to us then so be it. And I do agree that Peter's experience was likely one of him being "beside himself" due to the supernatural nature of the vision he was having (rather than some prolonged "going away" in his mind and a glazed over look, etc..).


_________________
~ Forrest

 2016/8/19 14:53Profile
StirItUp
Member



Joined: 2016/6/4
Posts: 949
Johannesburg, South Africa

 Re:

Similar to John being on the isle of Patmos and being " in the Spirit on the Lord's day" , surely the natural five senses are suspended and he saw into another dimension or realm?


_________________
William

 2016/8/19 14:59Profile
forrests
Member



Joined: 2016/3/11
Posts: 301


 Re:

Quote:
by StirItUp on 2016/8/19 11:59:51

Similar to John being on the isle of Patmos and being " in the Spirit on the Lord's day" , surely the natural five senses are suspended and he saw into another dimension or realm?



Amen, it's hard to deny that - the suspension of the five senses and seeing into another 'dimension or realm'.

And John's seemed much more prolonged - at least it would seem so if it was happening at the same rate as time passes here...if he was in a trance for half as long as it would take to read his vision, it would seem like quite a while. But who knows, maybe here 'in time' it was only 30 seconds (if any time passed at all)...

...now I feel all science fiction-ey and weird...thanks William! :-D


_________________
~ Forrest

 2016/8/19 15:10Profile





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