"Personally I don't think manipulation was too strong a word because the bible calls it witchcraft and we see that particular practice got Jesus jacked up more than anything else in scripture!!! "And with this post the thread is now officially completely off the rails. What a pity. I lot of sincere people have poured their hearts out in a plea to the body of Christ to reconsider that the current 21st church attitude towards drinking might be wrong (not sinful, but wrong). In the "all things are lawful but not all things are profitable - wrong - kind of way".And the best you can come up with brother is that they are speaking disgusting things and insinuating that they are practicing witchcraft? That Jesus would be very angry and jacked up with them? I have been very blessed by your posts on this forum and never expected these words to come from you. It is very puzzling to say the least. The only thing I can conclude is that you are completely misunderstanding the hearts of those who are issuing these warnings. I do not see witchcraft at operation here, I do not think that those who come at this with a different point of view are disgusting or being used by satan in any way. They just disagree with me and thats fine. But lets disagree with one another with kindness and common sense and refrain from bringing the game changing "nukes". There is no comeback to that. If you believe I am speaking from satan operating in witchcraft with my speach then how can we have any kind of discussion or fellowship for that matter?
Read the quotes that I posted they speak for themselves.I believe this one was a quote of yours :"I am surprised at the reaction of some...perhaps this is something that the Lord might be dealing with them about? Why else would they feel so strongly about defending their position on alcohol? So, if that is you and I say "if" God is dealing with you about this liberty you have, then go to Him about it and work it out with Him directly. It will not matter a hill of beans if you convince the world of your theological correctness in this matter if the Holy Spirit is telling you to stop."Making such insinuations as what you wrote above implying the intent of the posters here is what bothers me.Again I do not Drink and it is not the modern Culture that is influencing my understanding as what Brother Greg insinuated. My understanding is from being honest with what the Scriptures trully speak on the subject.
Saints,I am going to re-post part of what I wrote earlier in this thread and we are going to lock this thread now. There has been some profitable discussion but it has gone off into accusation and personal attacks. The issue was never about saints on SI as much as this is a bigger problem "enabling" young people, especially as its preached from pulpits and modern preachers that there is 100% liberty to drink all types of alcohol etc. My concern is here and I had to voice it. This is not a dead-horse I am beating nor am I making it a fixation on the forums, it has been just been brought up this one time. I hope some saints can see this concern.I will repost what I shared before as even a heart-check for all of us:---I know this topic can be something that is hard to deal with for some brethren, as this new found "liberty" has been expressed mostly in the last 20-30 years in the evangelical church, is essentially "new". I am not trying to rob you of this but I do feel a strong warning in my Spirit towards many younger brethren who are falling into sin in this area in the guise of liberty and everything is ok. We should also ask ourselves why this is a new liberty in that most Christian groups there were serious with the Lord did not encourage alcohol social drinking. Especially amongst unbelievers. Why has this all of a sudden changed?My major underling concern and I believe valid thought has been that the modern alcohol's spirits, liquors, beers and wines are "not" the same as the normal wine that the Scriptures speak of. There is a danger to consume the former in the same way the Bible speaks of consuming wine (which was a diluted or partially boiled in some cases so alcohol percentage was lower). This is not just my opinion but this is factual with many references in this thread and John Macarthur shares many in his video message.I ask this in all seriousness:Please pray to the Holy Spirit next time you are in a beer or liquor store, if God says it ok then do as you feel led of the Lord. Do also pray if you should give a witness for the Lord to the cashier or someone buying alcohol.---This thread is locked.
_________________SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
I left the SI forums some months ago after a hiatus of some years. One of the main reasons was the difficulty in having fruitful discussions that edify the body of Christ. This is an internet forum so it would be almost a miracle to see that happen here compared to say in a real life situation where you build community and have fellowship around the Lord face to face. But it does happen from time to time, I am sure, which is encouraging. So with that said I wanted to reiterate something I have said before and in this forum I am sure some of you might take offense and call it "manipulation" or some other strong word because you do not agree with my words. But I want those of you who take offense at my position to consider for a moment that we lived in community with each other, say perhaps in a house church. Lets imagine that this discussion came up in that setting.So now in our house church I have gone out and helped the Lord rescue a brother dying from alcoholism. Drinking himself senseless every night. And he goes through rehab and exits victorious and set free in Christ. And he tells us all that he will never touch another drop of alcohol in his life. And you and I are a part of that same house church. And we like a beer or wine or two here from time to time. And we have no issue with christians drinking socially as is now the new normal in the 21st century.What do we do in such a situation? This brothers and sisters is the backdrop of EVERYTHING I have said on this thread.And I believe that is the motivation of brother Greg and others too, but I can certainly sense that in what brother Greg is saying.Perhaps you believe that all of this is just manipulation...but to what end brothers? Why would I want to manipulate you? What would I gain lol? Do you think I want to stop you drinking socially...to Lord if over you and get a notch on my belt that I "won an internet fight" lol.If that is how I have come across I sincerely apologize. As far as I am concerned I only have one thing that matters to me...how my liberties affect the weaknesses in my brothers and sisters in the body of Christ. That is it. And I do agree with others here that this should extend FAR beyond just drinking alcohol but lets not open up all those doors or we will really make a mess of this thread.Much love to you all brothers and sisters, my this day be one of joy and peace in the Lord Jesus Christ.