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 Re:

Should we wake up because of future fearsome calamities on earth or wake up because we will be standing before a Holy God, someday? Or wake up because HE IS CALLING NOW and SPEAKING NOW?

So much conjecture and yet, communicating imagined, fearful future events to people really does not affect most people, righteously. What will and does have an effect on people is the anointed preaching of the Gospel.

 2016/7/26 13:02









 Re:Julius

So much conjecture and yet, communicating imagined, fearful future events to people really does not affect most people, righteously. What will and does have an effect on people is the anointed preaching of the Gospel.

--------------------------

Then brother why are people in this nation not responding to the so-called anointed preaching of the gospel? We certainly don't see people responding in this nation as they're responding in China. It is estimated that over 15,000 people a day are coming to Christ in China. And that is because the Chinese church is under persecution. But that is because the Chinese church living out an authetic life Imin Christ in shadow of the cross. It was persecution that is enabling the church to grow in China.

The same thing is happening in Iran. With the oppression of an Islamic government approximately 1000 Believers a day or responding to the gospel in Iran. And that is because the church in Iran is under persecution. That is because the Iranian church is livinh out an authentic Christian life In the shadow of the cross.

The anointed preaching of the gospel will not occur in the present reality of the American church. Because the present reality of the American church is sin filled self-centeted matetialism. That coupled with heretical Prosperity word faith teaching. With no teaching of the cross or its demands.

God must bring us to a point of desperation. I don't see any other way but that He send the refining fire of persecution upon the American church. We can disagree on the particulars of how that persecution will come. But persecution will come up on the American church whether we like it or not. But it will come. The question is how will we respond to it?

Again my thoughts.



 2016/7/26 13:22









 Re: Todd

Persecution is one thing; being rounded up into FEMA death camps is quite another.

--------------------------

Really brother what is the difference. Christians are sent to death camps in North Korea for their faith in Christ. So Why try to see it differently here. Because this is America?

Why is it alright for Paul Walker to say that we will be arrested as enemies of the state and that does not upset anyone in the forum. Although perhaps it should. At least they're being provoked to anger to a response.

Would it be more acceptable if I say that we will be arrested as enemies of the state and put in jail. Would that be less offensive. Probably not because Blaine Scogin said it.

Again Todd whether I say it or perhaps Paul Washer, who is more respected in this forum says it. Persecution is coming in America and I believe we will be arrested as enemies of the state. I'll leave it to your imagination as to what type of jail they will be put in.

Then to put a more positive spin on this. Maybe we will have a witness in the jail to the Constitutionionalist and the Patriots and the gun totin folks. Maybe even have a chance to witness to our persecutors.

My thoughts bro.





 2016/7/26 13:37
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Proverbs 20:3 says that every fool quarrels. I pray that I am not a fool and that I don't quarrel with you guys. Not going to engage that.

From the depths of my heart and the deepest part of my own understanding of Scripture -- and I testify before God that He has indeed enabled me to study and hear Him as He has you all -- I speak. If the Spirit of God nudges or strikes you with these issues as truth, then we have a like mind on these things. If He does not do so, then we have a like mind on many other things regarding our Lord, and may be He will nudge or strike me in correction as you patiently bear with me.

Men and women of God, I state on my life and bear witness to each of you that I would rather be counted among the unbelievers than to mislead or misstate anything to you that dishonors our Lord Jesus or testifies falsely about Him. The shadow of the last threshold of this age is cast over our feet or I am grossly deceived. Mark me as one to avoid if this sows discord; it is certainly not my intention but I am not certain intent is important on this topic.

If the time of the end is not at hand, then my brothers and sisters who sweetly cling to the hope of a long-lived witness to the love of God in Christ Jesus and a home-going by way of the grave in many years are to be commended. I ask God that, in His mercy and in His sovereignty, to deliver me from the delusions and ignorance of fools and to bring me into conformity with the image of Christ who undoubtedly fills the meeting halls and assemblies of this land and whose glory is made widely and well known in the churches in this country; that He might forgive me for my lack of faith in Him and my refusal to simply see the best in us; that I might be made to stand on the hard, stable, rock of Christ on which the church now shines as a beacon.





_________________
Tim

 2016/7/26 14:29Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5483
NC, USA

 Re:

Julius wrote "Should we wake up because of future fearsome calamities on earth or wake up because we will be standing before a Holy God, someday? Or wake up because HE IS CALLING NOW and SPEAKING NOW?"

This is an excellent point. For WHOSE sake do we seek personal and corporate revival? For our own sake and the sake of the nation or for HIS sake?

I agree that if we are not seeking it for our God's own sake then we will not seek it for any other reason. Seeking revival out of fear of persecution may be idolatry- I am not sure.

In other words, I do not decide to go hard after God so I will be ready for persecution if and when and how it comes. I go after God because He alone is worthy and I should be going hard after him REGARDLESS of circumstances or possible future circumstances.

I think it is disingenuous to try to wake people up by frightening them with persecution possibilities. If they refuse to be woken up simply for God's sake perhaps they do not deserve to be woken up.

Bear- if you ask a Chinese brother why they are living as they do, what would they say?


_________________
Todd

 2016/7/26 15:14Profile









 Re: Todd

Bear- if you ask a Chinese brother why they are living as they do, what would they say.

...............................

Probably "We do not listen to sermons. But we are the sermon." In other words they would probably say to us take up your cross and follow Jesus. Die to ourselves so that Jesus would live in us. That we would be the sermon.

But again the Chinese are doing this in light of persecution. For the persecution causes them to take up their cross to follow Jesus. The persecution causes them to die to themselves. But in so doing the Spirit of Jesus lives in them.

My thoughts bro.

 2016/7/26 15:21
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

The hoped-for awakening of the sleeping church is for the sake of His Name. The nature of the slumber is that we do not live unto Him but to ourselves yet we live to ourselves in His Name. Regardless of the time, if you look at the state of the church in this nation we are asleep and live to ourselves. When Jesus wrote to Ephesus and Pergamum, He said, "Repent or I will....". No matter the calendar, no matter the times, no matter the seasons, let's hear the Lord: "Repent or I will....".

But, what lies on the other side of that "or I will...." is vital. I plead with you to consider before God whether we are, indeed, in the last hour of the age, on the threshold of the time of the end. The church of Jesus does not seek revival out of fear of persecution, but out of an ultimate awareness that without the fullness of His Spirit we cannot endure it. It would be foolhardy to think we could wish persecution away if the time of the end is upon us; to do so would be to wish away the cup appointed to us, an act which Jesus Himself would not do as He submitted to the Father. We need revival because revival is the refreshing of life in Him, and He is our only need, His glory our only prize.


_________________
Tim

 2016/7/26 15:24Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5483
NC, USA

 Re:

Tim- I agree. But shouldn't we be seeking for revival and refreshing regardless of the fear of any persecution?

I think of Jesus' words regarding the rich man in Hades brothers- that if they do not believe Moses and the prophets they will not believe someone who raised from the dead.

I think the same is true regarding revival. If a person does not want revival for Gods sake alone, then any revival they may seek for any purpose of their own (like doing better under persecution) is not going to be genuine or lasting.

EDIT: I think of the old stereotypical sandwich board sign: "repent for the end is at hand." Thats a pretty shoddy reason for repenting.


_________________
Todd

 2016/7/26 15:37Profile









 Re: Tim

.
Brother I pray I'm not coming across in a spirit of quarreling. But I'm speaking out of a sense of urgency. Not panic. But urgency. In Eph. 5;15-17 Paul exhorts us,

... Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the little the Lord is...

Brother the email that the brother wrote is that God has not promised us comfort, but persecution. This was promised by Jesus Himself when He said that if anyone wishes to come after Him we must take up our cross to follow Him. The certainly leads to a spiritual dying to the things of this world. But this may also lead to an actual giving up of our physical lives even unto martyrdom.

This is the reality that our brothers and sisters live with in places like North Korea and Eritrea. This is not a reality we live with in America. So to speak of martyrdom or FEMA death camps or persecution of any sort brings criticism. There will be those who say that this is fear. This is fearful and is not wholesome or edifying.

But brother God has not given us a spirit of timidity or fear. He has given us a spirit of power and love and discipline. If we are filled with the Holy Spirit, Jesus Himself, then we will endure the persecutions that are coming.

And brother persecution will have to come. If we truly want to have a revived holy church in America. Then the refining fire of persecution will have to purge the sin that so grips the American Church. The refiner's fire will have to purify our faith.

Brother in my flesh I do not want to go through persecution. In my flesh I do not want to suffer for Jesus. I would rather believe the fantasy of comfort. In my flesh I would want to be the one going to heaven on flowery beds of ease.

But brother he has called me to a cross. He has called me to suffer for Him. The cross is before me. The world is behind me. I cannot avoid the cross. I can turn back to the world and put the cross behind me. But then I would become an enemy of God. And I would rather go through the fire of persecution. Then suffer falling into the hands of an angry God. In other words brother I would rather fear God then fear what man can do to me. Brother this is a decision that will face each of us. We must settle in our hearts whether we will live for Jesus regardless of the cost. Or not live for him and seek the safety of the world. And suffer His anger. Brother it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Better to suffer the fires of persecution.

Hope this makes sense bro.



 2016/7/26 15:51









 Re:

Quote:
by bearmaster on 2016/7/26 13:37:12

Why is it alright for Paul Walker to say that we will be arrested as enemies of the state and that does not upset anyone in the forum. Although perhaps it should. At least they're being provoked to anger to a response.



I never said this kind of talk upset anyone. I just wonder from an eternal perspective how that kind of talk is more edifying and powerful than preaching Christ and Him crucified.

Quote:
Would it be more acceptable if I say that we will be arrested as enemies of the state and put in jail. Would that be less offensive. Probably not because Blaine Scogin said it.



Again, I never mentioned anyone being offended. If more people are getting saved from telling them the imagined bad things that are coming rather than preaching the Gospel, then I guess the preaching of the Gospel will cease in favor of the preaching of the future, fearsome, events. Whichever one, produces more fruit, I guess.

Quote:
Again Todd whether I say it or perhaps Paul Washer, who is more respected in this forum says it. Persecution is coming in America and I believe we will be arrested as enemies of the state. I'll leave it to your imagination as to what type of jail they will be put in.



To tell you the truth, I usually turn off and tune out preachers that preach future fearsome events not because I don't believe the future is full of terrible events (heck, there are plenty already in the present) but because I know that having speculative knowledge (at best) about the future does not really help anyone. You don't have kids, but I can tell you that you never raise children by giving them a diet of speculative, fearful events that MIGHT happen. I also believe speculative sermons about the future are one of the easiest sermons to create and I tend to attach a certain kind of "laziness" to them. Jesus said, "Occupy till I come", and speculative, fearful, future events have a tendency to make people NOT occupy (marry, have children, pursue God given goals, etc) till He comes. Of course there are always exceptions. No sooner will I post this than someone will say, "I feed on future, fearsome events every day and I have eight children." Clearly, my statement is not for the exceptions. And you too, are probably an exception.

Also, sincere, true Believers who read their Bible are already aware of persecution and the need to go deep into Christ. It's not that they need to, but that they want to. They read about persecution and have already been rejected by those they love because of their stand with Christ. If a person is walking close to God in America, where everything exists for the flesh, I am convinced that they will be ok when speculative torture and death come. You know how I know that? Because they were faithful in the "small" things.

Jer 12:5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?

After WWI, in between WWII, I don't ever recall Corrie Ten Boom's father talking about the terrible events that were coming again unto Europe or while he was in the midst of the terrible events, bemoaning and giving "air time" to the terrible events, everyday. No, her father was all about Jesus. And, Wurmbrand himself was all about Jesus, before, during and after the terrible events. You should know this. Maybe, you have accidentally gotten on a hamster wheel of doom and gloom and just need to jump off for awhile. Trust me, I know how easy it is to do that (get on the wheel). Jumping off is a bit more difficult.

What we need more of, to get us through whatever kind of days are coming upon us, is more of Jesus.


 2016/7/26 15:51





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