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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is Satan bound now, or is that to come?

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 Re:

TMK,

Then these are good questions for you:

Then is The Great White Throne Judgement possibly just metaphorical?

How about the whole idea of Hell, the Lake of Fire? Is that literally a place or just an idea?

How about Jesus returning? Is that literal? Or metaphorical possibly?

The beast & the false prophet? Do/Will they really exist or are they just apocalyptic ideas of symbolic theory?

How about then the Wedding supper of the Lamb? Will there really be one? Or is it just a neat notion of apocalyptic imagery?

Or how about the throne of God where Christ sits with the martyrs crying out below it? Just a neat notion of word pictures?

You start down that road, then it's a "free for all" for "Did God really Say?" Sure, some things are clearly symbolic. That's why we use a "rational literalism" using common sense. I don't think a real actual 7 headed beast with ten horns is going to come up out of the Mediterannean Sea & neither does anyone else. But the devil? Jesus? The Judgement? Hell? These are all real bro! These ain't allegories. We can't make it up and pick and choose as we go. This is a contextual dialogue of visions that we believe in all of its parts & hve basic understanding of it. That's why using that as a fallback excuse to not explain Revelation 20 in its context doesn't jive IMHO.

 2016/7/25 13:40









 Re:

TMK,
You said:
"What parts can, and what parts cannot be taken literally are anybody's guess. Everyone gets to pick and choose what they want to be literal."

I don't think that's well thought through brother. "Anyone's guess"? "Everyone gets to pick & choose what they want to be literal."

No. That may sound good to some as a non-defense defense but I don't believe that.

Consider in 2 Timothy 2 Paul said:

"15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 16But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 17and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaus and Philetus, 18who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened.

Or how the entire book of Revelation opens in Chapter 1:

1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John (*there goes that previous explaining away of the phrase concerning an angel from heaven just being some aetherial who knows what - my added) who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

And so, it seems there is a blessing in reading aloud the words of this prophecy, hearing it, & keeping it. So, there's something to it other than just "everyone makes it up as they go, so what difference does it make?" I think. And let me address a potential response upfront - for those who say (as Preterists do): "see, it says NEAR, SOON, etc. not 2,000 years later.." Again, 1,000 years is as a day to the Lord & Jesus said "I am coming soon!" But He still hasn't come back and that's been over 2,000 years ago, so there you go. And if you say, no, they were full of the spirit and had clarity now & even the prophetic was clear because of progressive revelation (and even though I believe in progressive revelation as a concept, but think it's generalized and over-applies to prop up these views- it is ironic that this is THE LAST BOOK of the Bible. 😊). And besides, if it was just for them and already all happened, then satan is already in the lake of fire, Jesus has already returned, The wedding supper of the Lamb & the Great White throne judgements have already occurred, the New Heavens/Earth/Jerusalem have already come down from heaven, etc. We her to at least be consistent and use some rational thought, logic, consistency right?

 2016/7/25 14:11









 Re:

Jeff,
The great white throne judgement is future, bodily resurrection of the dead is future, throwing the devil in the fiery lake is future, new heaven new earth, heavenly Jerusalem are future. We have to examine each event whether they are future to us or were future only to the first century churches. The above events I examined and with my understanding and reasoning I can conclude that these are in the future for us. (my opinion) For many other events I am not sure, more examination is needed.

Edited to add: Jesus' second coming is future also.

 2016/7/25 14:11









 Re:

Thanks Toszu,
Like I said (because I saw it) if everything around the context of the fist part of Revelation 20 is future (right before it and right after it) simple context seems to make us think that the first part of Rev 20 must be too (& with nothing in the text or immediate context pointing otherwise). This makes me think maybe we should all go back to "the other verses" & "other arguments" & see if we "possibly" showed up to Revelation 20 with some presuppositions whose foundations are not as rock solid as we thought. That is my main point really. Where we say "what is the text saying?" Rather than starting from the place of "it can't possibly mean XYZ, so let's think of what else it must mean...", etc.
God Bless you for your graciousness,
Jeff

 2016/7/25 14:16
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

Jeff-

The answers to the questions you posed depend on what you mean.

The wedding supper of the Lamb, for instance. If you mean will we really be sitting down at a 100 mile long table asking someone from 20 miles down to pass the hot sauce, then I am not so sure. If you mean an awesome time of fellowship with saints and most importantly our Lord, then absolutely.

You don't need Revelation for the 2nd coming. It might be there but maybe not.

Things like the beast and false prophet- who knows. A very strong case has been made that the beast was Nero but of course I know this does not fit a futurist perspective.

Lake of fire sounds apocalyptic but I do not doubt the existence of hell be it a lake of fire or a place in outer darkness with wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I do believe in a future final judgment of the wicked and a judgment seat of Christ for believers. And the 2nd coming is future.


_________________
Todd

 2016/7/25 15:32Profile





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