| Re: AbideinHim|
Those are all good thoughts even though not neessarily backed up by the scriptures themselves. You have ignored the post-tribulational context of Haggai's prophecy and make it all for the present church and have not said a word about the glory that will belong to Israel after the second advent of its Messiah who will return to the same nation that He ascended from. The Holy Spirit will be poured out in that day also because Israel will be a nation of believers living under the rule of their long departed but now returned Savior. You make it all about the church now, and there is glory now, yet ignore the Israelitish context the prophecy from Haggai was centered around. In doing so, you have basically advanced the same supercessionist view that has influenced much of Gentile hermeneutics to the point that it has come to develop supercessionsim as its standard model of canonical interpretation as far as Israel is concerned. And again, Haggai's prophecy is clearly post-tribulational in its content. Get that wrong and you get the prophecy wrong. Since the prophecy is post-tribulational it can't pertain to the church NOW. I have nothing against the church now of course but that is not what the prophecy is about.
Christ in you the hope of glory. Absolutely. Yet Christ will be in them in that day - their hope of glory. We're partaking now of what they will partake of in that day.
| 2016/7/25 8:35||Profile|
| Re: David|
Brother please let us not turn this into a divisive thread where we are debating endtime eschatology. There have been enough of those on this forum. Presently there is a thread running arguing over whether Satan is presently bound or will be bound in the future.
You're certainly free to disagree with how I applied Haggai 2:9. If you want to argue your case then please open up a thread to do that.
The reason I opened up this thread on the latter glory is to show that the bride of Christ already has the glory. In other words there are those who are praying for revival for the glory of God to come down. When in actuality according to the truths Paul wrote about in His letter to the Ephesians. The bride already has the glory of Christ.
David the sum total of redemptive history is found in Jesus Christ and his death on the cross. What Jesus did on the cross was die for His bride so he might redeem her without spot or wrinkle. And the bride includes Jew and Gentile.
Also no man, Jew or gentle, can be saved apart from faith in Jesus Christ. Apart from accepting his atoning work on the cross. This is not Gentile Greek reasoning. This is spiritual truth as revealed by the holy spirit in the New Testament. The Book of John and Paul's letters to the Romans and the Galatians established that all men, Jew and Gentile, are all under sin. And that both Jew and Gentile need the atoning work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
Brother I would like to put this thread back on the original OP. That the bride of Christ already has the glory of Christ living within her. But ask how can we be the vessels of glory that are in His bride?
Thus I go back to my original question. Do we pray for a visitation of the Holy Spirit in revival. Or do we pray that we be the habitation of the Holy Spirit as we are the temple of Christ?
My thoughts bro.
| 2016/7/25 9:12|
| Re: bearmaster|
I may have been more clear but my past reply before this was to AbideinHim and not you. So if that maybe was not clear to you it is my fault.
/The reason I opened up this thread on the latter glory is to show that the bride of Christ already has the glory. In other words there are those who are praying for revival for the glory of God to come down. When in actuality according to the truths Paul wrote about in His letter to the Ephesians. The bride already has the glory of Christ./
I certainly believe that and are in agreement with you. It's just that I see a post-tribulational setting to Haggai 2:9 and it concerns the nation Israel after the tribulation. These distinctions are worth noting in my opinion. It does nothing to diminish the present glory you speak of already present but contained to a large degree in the body of Christ. I'm repeating myself I know so I'll leave it there.
/David the sum total of redemptive history is found in Jesus Christ and his death on the cross. What Jesus did on the cross was die for His bride so he might redeem her without spot or wrinkle. And the bride includes Jew and Gentile./
I agree with that. Where did I say anything to dispute it?
/Apart from accepting his atoning work on the cross. This is not Gentile Greek reasoning. This is spiritual truth as revealed by the holy spirit in the New Testament./
Where did I suggest that truth which I 100% agree with was Gentile and Greek reasoning?
/The Book of John and Paul's letters to the Romans and the Galatians established that all men, Jew and Gentile, are all under sin. And that both Jew and Gentile need the atoning work of Jesus Christ on the cross./
And I'm a bit baffled why you would include this in your reply. You say these things without explaining why you even brought them in and what is the reason for doing so. Do you fbelieve these things are something I'm not aware of? Did you perhaps feel a need to tell me these things because I believe Israel has a prophetic future? What made this come out of you to me. I'm not trying to be burr or contentiouis it's just that I'm in a serious disconnect here. It seems out of context and not connected to anything I said.
/Brother I would like to put this thread back on the original OP. That the bride of Christ already has the glory of Christ living within her. But ask how can we be the vessels of glory that are in His bride?
Thus I go back to my original question. Do we pray for a visitation of the Holy Spirit in revival. Or do we pray that we be the habitation of the Holy Spirit as we are the temple of Christ?/
Getting back to the original OP is okay with me and I've gheard God is not a "revivalist" but an "abodist." When He comes He wants to stay and abide so the treasure is of course in earthern vessels.
| 2016/7/25 22:22||Profile|
| Re: David |
Brother more and more I'm coming across gentile believers who say that Israel is the center of God's Redemptive history. They almost imply that us Gentiles are second-class citizens. But that the Jews are God's chosen people in heaven and us Gentiles or just kind of an afterthought.
Some even go as far as to say that Jews do not need to hear the gospel. But by virtue of their chosen relationship with God they will be saved. Not knowing where you were coming from in all this I felt the need to express what I expressed in my post.
I realize Israel will play a prominent part in the end times. I believe the prophecy that Jesus will descend and touch the Mount of Olives just as He was resurrected from the Mount of Olives.
But personally I do not believe that there will be a temple rebuilt in Israel with the restoration of the temple sacrifices. If so then we would have to abrogate the book of Hebrews. Actually I think some of the Jews would like to abrogate the book of Hebrews. Just my thoughts.
You may be right that Haggai 2:9 is supposed tribulation. I was only applying it prophetically in terms of the present glory of the church being greater than the glory of the first and second temples in Israel.
Anyway brother appreciate your post and thoughts. You might want to open up a thread and talk about the post tribulation of temple. I would certainly be interested in reading the responses. But then I would be to ignorant also to comment on it. This is just simply an area that I have not studied.
Anyway bro. As always these are my thoughts.
| 2016/7/25 22:58|
| Re: David |
Okay. Okay. I'm getting off topic on my own thread. Do you think Gentiles are meant to keep the Jewish feast?
| 2016/7/25 23:06|
| Re: |
I don't know what you mean by Jewish feast good bro.
| 2016/7/25 23:37||Profile|
| Re: |
What i dont undersand with what your saying blain ,is if your born again ,the glory is allready in you ,why would you keep praying that the glory be made to come in you ,,,its allreay happened , and if your talking about a second blessing, like those who experenced it at pentacost , that was a revivle of the glory of the spirit ' so to pray for that glory is to pray for a biblical filling of the spirit of glory ,, that is revival my friend pure and simple .....
| 2016/7/25 23:46||Profile|
| Re: |
He must be speaking about this
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
| 2016/7/25 23:51||Profile|
| Re: |
The Lord is speaking to His people, who, after the first excitement of coming to Him for forgiveness, when they are filled with joy and see Him in everything, devoting their whole selves to His service, join societies, go to Bible school, and seek His guidance in everything, slowly cool down.
Life goes on and they know they have fallen from their first love, and dearly want to return, but there are things now that seem to be in the way. So they decide that, once they finish Bible school, get their career well underway, have their marriage difficulties more sorted out, get their young children more independent, anything that takes up their energy and time, they will prioritise seeking Him. In the meantime they are 'building their own house' and neglecting that of the Lord.
Or perhaps they have just given up on that as things were much more difficult than they imagined. Family became an obstruction, disappointment added up, difficulties came from everywhere, and so they decided that 'in this world you will have troubles' and put their noses to the grandstone and just got on with it with the hope that life can go quickly and they have heaven to look forward to. In the meantime they just got colder and colder.
The Lord calls to His people to return unto Him and it is an recurring theme through the OT. They have crucified their Lord instead of being crucified WITH Him and if they will repent and humbly prostrate themselves, He will come again to rebuild His dwelling place within with it's altar, and fill the temple with His glory which shall shine all around.
"20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts."
He will cleanse the temple thoroughly, every little pot and pan will be made clean, in it's entirety and the glory of the Lord will no longer be dulled. The vessel will be holy and revived and His glory will be there for all to see and there will be peace in it.
This time, it will be even better than the first, as now they have been through the trials, they have found out just how little faith that hey have and how easily they abandon God. They now know themselves and their sins have been dealt with at the source, that is, now they have a pure heart and can serve God as He deserves to be served and worshipped. All Of Him and none fo us. Lord come quickly to your people and show them their sins. Amen.
| 2016/7/26 5:19|
| Re: brenda7|
I can appreciate the sentiments you expressed above and many of us have likely found ourselves experiencing such. I think that spiritual illustrations can be made from many passages yet in so doing it does not take away from or change the original meaning of a particular passage. Christ walking on water is a good example. It can be made into a spiritual illustration that God and Christ can walk upon the storms and trials of our life and can even bid us come and walk upon them with them. Yet it doesn't change the fact that Christ actually walked on the water. In this vein, I would point again to the post tribulational context of Haggai 2:9. Spiritual illustrations and teaching stories can be legitimately made from this verse but it doesn't change the original contect and meaning of the passage. This passage refers to post-tribulational Israel after the second advent of Christ and after "once more I will shake heaven and earth, the sea and the dry land. I will shake all nations" This final shaking is confirmed by Hebrews 12:26 and many other passages. So Haggai 2:9 can''t be referring to the present church or the trials of a believer where God fixes and molds them and circumstances and they are doing better in the Lord than they were at the beginning of their Christian walk. That will preach and edify but the furthest it can go would be making it a spiritual illustration taken from a passage describing something else. The passage refers to a time after Israel has been sifted among the nations (Amos 9:9) and has been placed again in their own land never to be rooted out again (Amos 9:15) after Christ returns to this land. I've gone on here and apologize if I have offended but the distinctions between a spiritual illustration being made from Haggai 2:9 and what the prophecy really is about and who it concerns are well worth bearing in mind and understanding in my opinion.
Thank you and blessings to you.
| 2016/7/26 8:20||Profile|