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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Jesus drowned in a multitude of words.......

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 Re:

Blaine,
please provide quotes where someone endorsed clergy laity distinction, sitting under clergy, or clergy having seminary degree.

God giving teachers to the church is not clergy laity distinction.
Being teachable and listening to teachers that are called by God to teach is not sitting under clergy. Prayerfully study the Word to understand God and his will for us called theology is not the same as seminary degree. Teachers studying to be more skilled and capable to serve God better is not clergy getting seminary degree.
Don't judge by appereance, judge with righteous judgement.

 2016/7/17 13:11









 Re:

I agree with Blaine. The Nicolaitian model we see (I know scholars are split down the middle on what that means) Jesus condemns in the letter to one of the churches in Revelation is not God's design/way. Not one who "Lords it over" the people. Not how most of the American church congregation model is setup. Not at all. I agree. Seminary isn't a requirement. I agree. If a man isn't full of the Holy Ghost He shouldn't be leading (or even "serving tables" in the Acts account). I agree.

But brother, as the last poster Toszu said, that's not as clear what you're referring to in your posts. They come across as demeaning the value, calling & necessity of Teaching/Teachers in the Body & as "I don't need anyone" lone rangerism. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt. It's a reactionary theology imbalanced response to all that we see wrong in the typical current church model. But eventually we have to get past only calling out "what's wrong" & building "what's right".

God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/7/17 13:24









 Re: Julius

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, but things that flow out of my heart naturally from study of the Word, experience, & thinking a lot on such things flow very quickly. Looking up all the scriptures, cut and pasting them verbatim, etc. takes ALOT more time. I know it can be helpful, but as David Pawson points out, 2 bishops added chapters (1 did) & verse numbers (1 other did). Before that, people "searched the scriptures" and actually also got context in the meantime. When Jesus or the apostles quoted scripture, they just said "as it was said XYZ" or "as the prophet Isaiah XYZ". This made people be familiar with the scriptures and context. Also stopped a lot of eisogesis errors in using Google to provide "isolated proof texts" free of context. But I'm not trying to be argumentative and I understand what you're saying. Just being honest with my thoughts. 😊
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/7/17 13:28









 Re:

Brethren I am reasoning from the New Testament model. The simplest definition of a church is found in Matthew 18:20,

... For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst ...

The above passages are in the context of what we call church discipline has Jesus expounds in Matthew 18:15-20. David Platt in his book Radical has rightly observed that Jesus was a mini church leader.

In other words three saints getting together in a Starbucks can constitute a church. Particularly if they are coming together with open New Testaments or Bibles with the intention to encourage and build up one another.

I might add that if one has been feeding them self from the word of God through the Holy Spirit. Then to meet with in such fellowship can be a blessing to the other saints.

We do not need to have a man stand between us and God to break open the word of God. For Paul tells us in 1 Timothy 2:5-6,

... For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time...

Because Christ is our mediator he has opened to us access to God. Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:18,

... for through him we both have our access in one Spirit to the father...

Because of this the writer of Hebrews tells us,

... Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find hrace to help us in time of need...

Because we have access to God. We have access to His Holy Spirit who lives in us to teach us the word of God. We do not need the evangelical protestant priest standing before us to break open the scriptures. The Holy Spirit is quite sufficient to teach us His Word as we have the resident author of scriptures living in us.

Jesus has promised us the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit. Jesus tells us in John 14:26,

... But the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the father will send in my name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I've said to you ...

In John 15:26 we read,

... When the helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about me ...

And in John 16:12-15,

... I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; but He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; he will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify me, for he will take of mine and will disclose it to you. All things that the Father has are mine, therefore I said that He takes of mine and will disclose it to you ...

Brothers and sisters this ministry is promised to us. The ministry, the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit, is promised to the saint who has a humble heart to listen to what the Voice of the Shepherd is saying.

For sure there may be brothers and sisters who will encourage us with insights that the Spirit has given them out of the Word of God. These are the things that are shared in the body ministry of what we call the church.

But to learn truth from Jesus should come in the prayer closet with an Open Bible sitting at the feet of Jesus Himself. And this presupposes that we are in relationship to Jesus through His Holy Spirit.

Brothers and sisters and my thoughts as revealed to me by the Spirit of Jesus.



















 2016/7/17 14:17









 Re:

Quote:
by Tozsu on 2016/7/17 13:11:51

Blaine,
please provide quotes where someone endorsed clergy laity distinction, sitting under clergy, or clergy having seminary degree.

God giving teachers to the church is not clergy laity distinction.
Being teachable and listening to teachers that are called by God to teach is not sitting under clergy. Prayerfully study the Word to understand God and his will for us called theology is not the same as seminary degree. Teachers studying to be more skilled and capable to serve God better is not clergy getting seminary degree.
Don't judge by appereance, judge with righteous judgement.



Brother Blaine,

Did you just move the goalposts?

Where was clergy/laity and the Nicolaitan spirit brought up? Your response infers that everyone participating in this thread supports the Nicolaitan spirit which is a false premise, I believe.

Tozsu is correct in identifying God given and gifted teachers in the Body. One of your heroes, and mine, Richard Wurmbrand is such a one.

Brother Blaine, you yourself have learned truth from Jesus as He taught it to you through men. You don't deny this do you?

 2016/7/17 14:29









 Re:

Blaine,
Where are the quotes?

 2016/7/17 14:36
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5346
NC, USA

 Re:

What if Peter had said on the day of Pentecost to all the new converts- "you have Jesus and the HS- you don't need anything else." (even Paul).


_________________
Todd

 2016/7/17 15:21Profile









 Re:

One last comment & I am personally bowing out of the discussion:

"3 guys at a Starbucks with an open Bible" can be a form
Of Fellowship, but does not constitute the Biblical model of the "Ekklessia" that meets in the "Sunagaguae" (the words used in the original Greek). 3 guys at a Starbucks don't do the type of Body Ministry among the Ekklesia found in 1 Corinthians Chapters 11-12 (Lord's Supper, Prophetic Words, Hymns, Spirtual Songs, "TEACHINGS", speaking in tongues and interpreting, all the other gifts, etc.). 3 guys at a Starbucks don't need all of the NT Instruction for the requirements of a Deacon, an Elder or a Bishop. 3 guys at a Starbucks with open Bibles is a good thing. And it can be a type & place for some good fellowship, but please don't confuse that with the "Ekklesia" meeting/assembling as/at "Sunagaguae". Why then would so much specific instruction have been given for leaders, gifts, and functions in Paul's letters to Timothy, in Titus, etc. Let's not Add to the words of God as the "Nicolaitin" Clergy model does, but in an attempt to "react" to that type of wrong, let's not "take away from the Word of God"
Either and minimizing NT Body Ministry & Ekklesia to just 3 guys meeting at a Starbucks with their Bibles. Re-read the instructive NT Texts on these things brother. 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Romans, Ephesians, 1 Corinthians, etc.
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/7/17 16:00
TrueWitness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 521


 Re: Testing Out How To Quote in Post

Testing the QUOTE button found in the reply form:


Testing the open bracket method:

Quote:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.



So why is there a quote button if it doesn't work? I don't think it would take to much computer skills for someone to fix this on the server side. I know the frequent posters know about bracketing quotes but what about the newcomers? I am trying to offer constructive criticism and not just complaining to be complaining. Nudge, nudge.

 2016/7/17 17:20Profile









 Re:

I just copy and paste. Sonething I learned from a bro. Makes me dangerous and heretical in the forum. ;)

 2016/7/17 17:38





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