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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : How Was Christ Tempted?

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 Re: the sinner is a slave of sin

The sinner is totally cut off from God. All he can do is sin. So we see that while we live in this state that sin - the devil is our master and owner. We are cut off and completely dead to God and His Righteousness.

If we live in the kingdom of darkness we are under the domain of sin we are not free at all. Sin - the devil is our master and our lord and we will do his bidding. We really have no other choice while we continue to be a servant - slave to sin. We are married to the law and under the law of sin and death. Our body - temple is infused with sin - the devil.

The sinner is just expresser of the devil and is his representative - ambassador in earth. Basically they are the devil in the flesh.

John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

The sinner will do the lusts of devil - he is a slave of sin.

 2016/7/6 10:17









 Re:

Very true, tuc,

We derive/express the character of our F(f)ather. We cannot standalone in this universe. Man always looks to another (God or Satan) for his spiritual identity. There is not a third choice. We do not create good or evil, we express it as children of God or children of the Devil.

Jesus said the "devil hath nothing in Me".

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

The enemy will continually battle with us to get us to express his spirit.

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

We are either of God or the Devil and our position and our deliverance must be maintained. It is not a one time thing. We cannot rely on victories 20 years ago to deliver us from the wiles of the Devil, today. We must be vitally linked (abiding in Christ), daily and this way we will manifest His character and behavior.

 2016/7/6 10:33









 Consider this verse.

Pro 11:23, "The desire of the righteous is only good: but the expectation of the wicked is wrath."

 2016/7/6 12:46
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Yes but.... "Saved" people still sin because they lust (per James) and have not.... The problem of sin is compounded when we seek justification apart from Christ which, unfortunately we sometimes do...
Jesus said He neither said nor did anything that He didn't see/hear His Father say/do. So while I see and receive the point being made of "identification" the person who sins is ultimately responsible for their choice to sin against God after salvation has appeared to them and their minds enlightened by the truth.
For me personally, it seems to be a case of not fearing God in spite of the repeated NT warnings to this effect-


_________________
Fletcher

 2016/7/6 13:57Profile









 Re: saved people do sin

Yes saved people do sin because the devil has deceived them about themselves.

I do not think it is a case of lack of fearing God but not knowing the the real TRUTH and responding to it.

They are believing a lie and only the TRUTH which is the person of Christ who is actually dwelling, abiding and living within them can set them free.



 2016/7/6 14:30
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Yes that is true but not exclusively so...
For example; earlier while driving home from holiday with the kids, I got a roll of sweet tarts for them to hopefully distract from hours in a 45 yr old truck with no airconditioner and after peeling off some paper to get them a few, the thought/temptation came to toss the minuscule paper out the window... now immediately after that thought, almost on top of it, came the thought that the Lord would have me leave it in my truck and discard it later in a proper fashion. So if I had tossed it anyway would that have been sin?
Yes for me to do so is to violate my own conscience and that would only lead to the justification/rationalization I alluded to earlier which serves to harden our conscience toward sin. That's why what is sin for one may not be sin for another. There is no law prohibiting me from tossing the paper out the window and so I'm free to do so,...except in this case it wasn't ok for me to do so tho for another person it may not be an issue to do so.

This is where Jesus excelled and we all have failed at one point or another even after salvation. Just like Jesus, today I had a choice to obey or disobey (even in small things). So when someone cuts us off or almost causes us to crash, we have a choice to either respond in frustration/fear and give space to bad thoughts and act/speak on them or in faith towards God and act/speak on these....Jesus, no matter what, always responded in faith towards God and was thereby perfected through suffering.

The reason I see it as a fear issue is because if I had tossed the paper out and hardened my conscience, as opposed to obeying and keeping it supple, I would have acted apart from my fear of the Lord and sinned. Tho because of my fear that I may sin against Him and thereby break communion, I for conscience sake simply obeyed. Now in the moment it didn't occur to me but after a moment the Lord showed me how that tossing it out would be a bad example to my young boys and seemed undisciplined which in their eyes would make me a hypocrite as I surely don't allow them to toss things out of a moving vehicle.
I guess what I'm trying to say is this, while I totally get the point of identity, it in and of itself is not all there is to our walk in a practical daily sense. In my understanding, our walk is a deeply personal one tho the implications of obedience/disobedience are pervasively corporate.
Again this is where Jesus excelled, as He says it was for the disciples sakes that He sanctified Himself tho there were many things He could've otherwise done.


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Fletcher

 2016/7/6 16:09Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 wrong questions lead to fruitless speculation

Jesus was tempted on this wise, lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life. The question asked is could He sin, honestly the better question is why would He, He is God, He subjected Himself to our low estate so that He could lead us through the cross and resurrection keep us through His prayers of intercession knowing full well what it is we suffer through when we are vexed by temptation and in this with the supply of the Holy Spirit lead us through to victory or remediate us until we become overcomers.


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D.Miller

 2016/7/6 20:26Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: wrong questions lead to fruitless speculation

Yeah He could have sinned otherwise there is no real temptation... and so why would He? well Jesus got hungry after 40 days of fasting and was tempted to turn a rock into bread... Now if He didn't have a choice then there was no temptation, if He did have a choice and the power to satisfy it then the temptation would be real would it not? Jesus was tempted on all points just as we are but responded in faith towards God. Jesus got angry more than once but responded in faith, not in anger and so did not sin. He even resisted the temptation to sin unto death.
He feared His Father and as Isaiah 11 prophesied, delighted Himself in it.
And Jesus tells us to fear Him too!
But do we,...do we really fear Him?

Jesus knows our Father more intimately than any of us and if He fears Him and tells us too as well and then sets an example for us of obedience unto death then perhaps it is an important aspect of overcoming temptation.
People are more likely to give in to temptation when there is no perceived immediate consequence to having done so... But sin always has a consequence just like the truth does. Temptation also carries a consequence in every case,...either we resist it and grow in grace or we give in and make grace of no effect. Jesus had to grow just like we do, and had to choose righteousness just like we do,...in spite of what temptations may come our way. None of us will be tempted beyond what we can bear so in the end we are without an excuse.








_________________
Fletcher

 2016/7/6 23:06Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Define sin


_________________
D.Miller

 2016/7/6 23:44Profile
TrueWitness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 661


 Re:

The word temptation means to be tried or tested. This is the broadest definition of the word. However, most Christians when they hear that word assume it means to be enticed or seduced to commit sin. Jesus was tempted meaning he was tested with hardship, difficulties, persecution and/or suffering which he could have gotten out of, but if he did that he would not fulfill God's will for Him. Jesus never had any desire or desires to do or say anything that God forbids. Any temptation of Jesus to gratify sinful desires would have been futile because Jesus did not have a sin nature inherited from Adam. It would be like someone offering me a cigarette. I don't smoke so I pass the test or temptation easily. But I was tempted in the strictest definition of the word temptation. All humans inherited a fallen nature from Adam and therefore have to deal with sinful desires within. Some people more than others and in different areas. Jesus was tempted to not go to the cross, to not endure scoffing and mocking and derision from Pharisees, etc. and to not endure the scourging and other abuses that happened prior to the Cross. These were severe testings (temptations). But Jesus never had any sinful desires in Himself.

Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me (John 14:30).

There was nothing in Jesus that would respond positively to any enticement from the world, the flesh or the Devil.

I know that plenty of Christians have a different take on this than what I am presenting here. If you feel offended by my post and you decide to respond to it and give a reply, I ask only one thing: Tell me by answering either YES or NO to this question: Did Jesus ever have any desire to any degree to do or say anything that God forbids? I say the answer is NO!

-Daniel

 2016/7/7 0:01Profile





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