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Who was luke ,just worker of pauls ,under his apostoilic athority as were all the gentile churches ,,
The chruches turning away from paul were evident of there fleshlyness , paul makes that clear in his letters to the churches .
The likely scenario ,being that paul alleary made it clear that the holy spirit compleled and constrained him to go to jeruslam, and the imature or fleshly state of most of the churches as paul points out and jesus speaks about .
Is that paul was led by the spirit obedent has he said with a clear concence ,disaplined to the higheslt level of any man ,and was correct that he was being led by the spirit to go to jerusalam , and that luke and thoses deciples were wrong , in that they weren deserning enough to get the interpretation of the word of the lord concering paul ..
This is by far the most plausible reason for the disagreement , between paul and those deciples ...
The out right disgusting responce of the churches turning away from paul is proof ,that they were not full of grace as some think , but they were decived enough to reject the one god sent to guide the churches in asia , with apostolic athority , and the one god used to write some of the deepest and most important parts of the bible ......
But this is a typical responce by christians toward a holy man of god ,
He was rejected like his master , and hated with out a cause, and was one of verry few who were truly willing and joyfull to partake in the sufferings of christ ,he loved not his life to the death ....
There is no indication of a contrasing image of the apostal paul .
We do well if we reframe from misrepresenting paul as many of the christians did in his day , and take pauls word as trust worthy , a man sent from god ..... Who has see said ran the race ,well , who naver gave any indacation in any of his letters that he was ever out of the will of god .
But was blamless ,in that he was one of the verry few who constantly practice what he preached , but was attacked on many angles , for his hly stance an willingness to suffer for his saviour , rather then to debate the character of his fellow workers,as we do ..
| 2016/7/6 3:21||Profile|
| Re: |
Gary this has not been an attack on Paul, the greatest apostle ever. It has been about a deeper understanding of the scripture and what took place in the early years of the church. I am sorry you took it that way. He is my favourite saint and l cannot wait to meet him. At least we will have the answer then.
| 2016/7/6 3:37|
| Re: |
Maby peter would have fit better in this ,,
Sister i see know benefits from trying to scratch at dirt that is not even close to being clearly dirt , but angle dust .....
For a thread titled as such ,one would go to paul for christ likenesses asthe pinical of being led by the spirit ,rather then doing this to malign pauls walk with god ..
I just dont see the holy spirit being involved in doing what you you are doing here ,not for one seconed .......
But im not saying your doing in this thread what they did to paul In that they rejected him ,and chose false apostals .
Sister i think a deeper understanding scripture, reveals the holiness of paul ,that makes me cry ,from the fragrence of god ,i cry right now ,with a jelousy for what paul had , ....literally tears are flowing ,,with me not being able to express words of exacly why ,execpt for the presence of god that is on all of the words of paul ,,its like being born again ,,again ,,,,,,😭👼..
All i can says with these tears that are flowing is that the spirit is baring witness with what im saying ,,i had to stop then to just cry with that witnesses,,,thats all i know sister,,,,,and that doesn't happen much when i post ..............😂 Then came the joy the laughter of unspeakably happiness,,,,but happiness does not describe it realy does it ,doesent even come close ....
| 2016/7/6 4:49||Profile|
| Re: |
This study has been a great blessing to me, for encouragement during a very trying time when all has been falling apart for me. I am greatly blessed by Paul's writings when he was walking in the light and value them greatly, but also to think of how the apostles themselves were so easily deceived really has given me the understanding, strength and determination that l was lacking before.
No man is ever safe from falling, and boy did Paul get it wrong l believe which gives me much hope and warning to cling to Christ and take care as never before.
I cannot judge Paul and you have got that wrong brother, as l have been deceived and robbed of the divine blessing of grace so many times. And l believe that Paul was walking in perfection before this deception be fell into. I have failed to keep up my own walk in perfection, but feel that the Lord is teaching me great things from Paul's story.
Blessings to you and your tender-heartedness.
| 2016/7/6 7:34|
| Re: |
Well said, Brenda. I can echo your same words as to why this study has blessed me, too. It truly is a sober reminder that anyone can miss God. You are not the only one who has robbed themselves of blessing and grace and what a bitter pill it is. But, we must not lose heart from our own mistakes, but "lift up holy hands and strengthen our feeble knees". I have a much better appreciation for many of the things Paul said now. Indeed, this was absolutely no attack on Paul or sitting in judgment of him any more than trying to learn spiritual lessons from the lives of many other saints in the Bible.
Even Paul would agree:
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
| 2016/7/6 7:59|
| Re: |
I listened today to David Pawson preaching on the book of Acts:
He thinks that the reason for Luke to write Acts, was for a testimony written for Theophilis, a lawyer acting for the defence of Paul while he was imprisoned, as David summises.
He says that there was a fear amongst the disciples that there would be a split between those who followed Peter and those who followed Paul. Luke wished to make them equal and it is obvious in Acts that this idea led Luke to compare the two and emphasis the similarities by saying that they both had miracles follow them etc.
I think that Luke recorded that both Peter and Paul had episodes where they were not being led by the Spirit, as we have been discussing regarding Paul here on this thread, and that one purpose was to prevent any worshipping of either of them later on, and I do believe that Paul will have insisted that his great friend and doctor recorded his failures as well as his successes.
| 2016/7/11 10:42|
| Re: David Pawson|
When I first read the OP I was very saddened. To make the following accusations against Paul I believe is a very very terrible thing:
*Paul is not listening to God.
*He was determined which meant that he was not open to the leadings of the Spirit
*Paul has lost his way and is now driven by his own thoughts
*accompanying Paul despite their understanding that it was not God's will and their stubborn brother in Christ was in mortal danger.
*definitely out of order and a downright lie from the fallen Paul.
*our dear brother had a fall from grace
Beloved sister you have gone beyond what is written. Maybe you could have asked questions regarding these events rather than the dogmatic way you went about stating your opinion.
Credit to and thank you to those of you who spoke against these accusations.Particularly BrotherGary.
Since he was mentioned I will also add that David Pawson definitely does not hold to the view in the OP.
Not wanting to debate - just felt it important to say something.
| 2016/8/2 9:17||Profile|
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Well Andrew you are entitled to your opinion, stated dogmatically, just as I am to mine.
I did not just give my opinion however, I quoted scripture that said plainly that the Holy Spirit was telling Paul not to go.
Its funny how it is okay to think of Peter as going off track for a while but not Paul. A sacred cow maybe to some.
I love Paul and think he was the greatest apostle by the way. I guess you are not intetested in that though.
| 2016/8/2 9:23|
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This is a valid study about Paul's life. No one is accusing him of not being perfect for none of us are.
| 2016/8/7 23:07|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Re: |
we are going to end this thread as enough room has been given to explore what sister Brenda has brought forth. I believe Frank's initial reply is very concise and to to the point clarifying possible confusions in the text.
I present it again:
Hi Brenda, I believe that you are in error with your conclusions. Of course these are just my thoughts but let me explain. Here in the same chapter, Acts 21, we see from Agabus the specific words............
And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles. (Act 21:11)
You see, this is the word of knowledge or prophecy from an acknowledged Prophet. Then, in the flesh they add their concerns..........
And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem. Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus. (Act 21:12-13)
You see, the first part was the prophecy and the second part was their fleshly and understandable response to it. Yet Paul, with all the vision and the revelation from God, knew what was in store and that indeed these things would happen but that they were the will of God. Higher and more glorious is the path that denies the flesh and willingly suffers for the cause of Christ. We overcome the enemy by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony and this most important part that so many men have resisted down through the ages but a smaller more glorious group have not " and they loved not their lives unto death." These are the heroes of the Church that we read about in the last 2000 years.
Here is Matthew Henry's take on the Scripture you gave sister and you will see that it falls in line for what I have just laid out for Acts 21:11 and gives context to the Scripture that you used as your example. Matthew Henry says of Acts 21:4..............
"3. The disciples at Tyre were endowed with such gifts that they could by the Spirit foretel the troubles Paul would meet with at Jerusalem; for the Holy Ghost witnessed it in every city, Act_20:23. Being a thing that would be so much talked of when it came to pass, God saw fit to have it much prophesied of before, that people's faith, instead of being offended, might be confirmed. And withal they were endowed with such graces that foreseeing his troubles, out of love to him and concern for the church, especially the churches of the Gentiles, that could ill spare him, they begged of him that he would not go up to Jerusalem, for they hoped the decree was conditional: If he go up, he will come into trouble there; as the prediction to David that the men of Keilah will deliver him up (that is, if he venture himself with them); and therefore they said to him, by the Spirit, that he should not go up, because they concluded it would be most for the glory of God that he should continue at liberty; and it was not at all their fault to think so, and consequently to dissuade him; but it was their mistake, for his trial would be for the glory of God and the furtherance of the gospel, and he knew it; and the importunity that was used with him, to dissuade him from it, renders his pious and truly heroic resolution the more illustrious."
We must at all times follow the Spirit and not the flesh dear sister. For as Matthew says, our trials are for the glory of God and we should not be dissauded by the nature of them and finally Matthew concludes that Paul's actions were all the more " pious and truly heroic," and his resolution all " the more illustrious." I am in complete agreement with this and respectively disagree with your premise and conclusions.............bro Frank
This thread is locked.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2016/8/7 23:18||Profile|