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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Being led by the Spirit.

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

Acts 23:9-11 And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God. And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him into the castle. And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

I see Paul being still in the center of God' will. He was told by God, that is Jesus, God the Father and the Holy Spirit that he would go where he was and would suffer, and with all the dissention that was confronting him now he might have had some misgivings of all that was said about him going to Jerusalem and thinking, well maybe I should have listened to my brethren and not have come. But the Lord Himself stood by Paul and said, "cheer up Paul", you have testified of me in Jerusalem and now you must go to Rome and do the same thing.

Saying that Paul was outside of the will of God and to accomplish on his own what God had intended for him to do all along, to me, is saying that Paul was ahead of God and he knew more than God. I don't think so. To me Paul was still in the perfect will of God to accomplish exactly what was intended for him all along.

Paul had accomplished what Jesus said he would accomplish, that was to bring the Gospel to the gentiles. Paul only had one more thing to do and that was to go to Rome before the king himself and proclaim the Gospel. To Paul it was almost finished.

Acts 28:25-28 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Who will hear what?

Standing in Paul' defense the chief of sinners, whom God used mightily and I am sure he sits with Christ at the right hand of God in the heavenly places, where in spirit all those that believe sit also.

Loving Paul and wishing God might use me as well.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2016/7/2 17:30Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by Christinyou on 2016/7/2 17:30:37

Standing in Paul' defense the chief of sinners, whom God used mightily and I am sure he sits with Christ at the right hand of God in the heavenly places, where in spirit all those that believe sit also.

Loving Paul and wishing God might use me as well.



Well amen, bro. We all love Paul and thank God for him. You don't really believe this thread is questioning his salvation, do you?

 2016/7/2 18:37
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1861


 Re:

9“Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers.b 1


25See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.


based on Jesus warnings the reason why the holy spirit warned the apostals of persecution was so they would be ready not because they were sinning in some way...

 2016/7/2 19:51Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

Amen guys;

The statement "fallen from grace" is what go me.

I have no doubt of Paul' salvation and I don't believe that is what this thread is all about.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2016/7/2 21:10Profile









 Re:

Dear Gary

I believe we are talking about two different issues here: on the one hand we have warnings - which are repeated, like the red light that flashes on the dashboard of your vehicle and reqires you to STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING! and give it attention, otherwise you are going to land in some big trouble; amd on the other hand we have assurance, which only needs to be given once, as we can recall it when needed and is given so that we know that we are not doing the wrong thing: we are on the right track despite the hurdles; we should KEEP ON DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING! (not shouting, just emphasising) because there is something going on in the spiritual realm that is to say persecution, and we are to carry on doing what we are doing. This goes against what we have learned in life.

Will get back to the other comments in the morning.

 2016/7/2 21:19
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1861


 Re:

Hey brenda....

But where do you get idea from the text ,unless im missing somthing ,there was no call for paul to repent ,and that should be accompanied with that type of warning ,if paul was being disobedent ,

Other wise its realy an a sumption based on conjecture....

That would not be exegesis,

But based on text like the one i posted ,warnings about persacution ,were givern to strengthen, so one may not be shocked when it happens......

 2016/7/3 0:54Profile









 Re:

Dear Gary

If we are soldiers of Christ we are to count the cost:

Quote:
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26-33).



So like a soldier, we are given warnings about what it means to follow Christ, prearmed and then we enter the battle and expect to be persecuted, hated and killed, we do not need to be warned other than that so we should not be shocked or expect anything other than warfare. Sometimes God does give a forewarning so that we can escape a situation.

That is not to say that we never are warned but it is not to do as you say. When I receive bad treatment and my family does not class me as one of them and give help when needed,(which I am not - I am in the kingdom) or whenever anyone says unjust things about me or attacks me, it only serves to let me know that I am very much in the kingdom and causes me to rejoice.

And as Julius has said so well, if Paul was listening then the HS would not have to keep repeating Himself to Paul.

God will often let us go our way until we reap what we have sown but He does not desert us and will sometimes give us encouragement as He did with Paul but He let the circumstances play out so that Paul could learn his lesson.

 2016/7/3 2:56









 Re:

Dear Philip

When we are in God's will and walking in the light or in grace, we can fall from that as Peter did when Paul had to confront him and bring him back. It does not mean that we are no longer children of God.

If we are not hearing God speak within or from others, we have started to listen to what we ourselves want even if there is nothing intrinsically sinful in the desire. Also it leads to listening to the enemy which is one stage futher. All must be submitted to God's rule.

 2016/7/3 3:00









 Re:

Dear Julius

Many thanks for such an excellent post, and for the insights you have shared such as these:

"God was clearly not warning the Church of Paul's coming sufferings, as the prophecies kept going to Paul not the Church".

"Agabus did not go from church to church sharing his warnings about Paul, he only went to Paul. What then was God's purpose in warning Paul time after time after time? In all known instances in the Bible where God has repeatedly warned a man of future consequences related to his conduct and behavior, the purpose was always to stop him. God's purpose in Paul's case is made very clear in Acts 21:4."

"It looks like to me that Paul's visit to Jerusalem was not for any good purpose and if he heeded the Lord's warnings he would have gone to Rome sooner. He would have preached there as a free man, maybe even stayed longer and gone onto Spain for more fruitful ministry."

"Did Paul present a strong witness to the Sanhedrin while in Jerusalem? No, he embarrassed himself and the gospel by his fleshly outburst against the high priest. Paul had no alternative but to apologize for breaking the law."

But this is where I differ:

" I know it is hard for us to imagine but even the great apostle Paul was imperfect. The chief of sinners was still a sinner."

Paul does say in a few places that he was perfect or that perfection was expected:

28. Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus Col 1

6. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world 1 Cor 2

10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe 1 Thes 2.

And he also called on others to copy him in his behaviour.

My understanding is that this was an occassion like that of Peter when the apostle fell from his state of perfection whatever we understand by that and was hopefully restored.

These aberations were spoken about by John Wesley where he said that it is possible to lose the entirely sanctified state many times.



 2016/7/3 3:18
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1861


 Re:

Brenda ,i dont know what that has to do with the text we were talking about ...

 2016/7/3 3:28Profile





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