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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Being led by the Spirit.

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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7452
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:

"A warning from the Holy Spirit or a word of knowledge is not always a mandate that requires obedience. It is a loving and compassionate Word from our Lord to his own precious children that they may choose the difficult way but does not demand it."

As I would understand this issue...the Holy Spirit can and may give us warnings about what will happen in our obedience to Him. This is not to discourage us but to warn us so one can be prepared to deal with the conflict that is sure to come. Like they say, "Forewarned is forearmed." And...I suspect most of us at some time or another experience this in our walk with Him. And...this is faith where the rubber meets the road.

My understanding..

Sandra


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2016/7/1 14:20Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2730
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Being led by the Spirit.

Brenda,

Thanks for posting on this topic, it is an important one. I would just like to add to what others have said here;

Because the Holy Spirit has inspired the Scriptures, the Bible is a standard of spiritual truth, and in all His teachings and leadings, the Holy Spirit never contradicts His own word. Therefore those who are more fully led of the Spirit will always most reverence the authority of the Scriptures, and walk most closely their principles.

But, as you have pointed out, we must seek the will of the Spirit of God through, or in connection with, the Word of God. The Spirit and the Word must be combined. If I look to the Spirit alone without the Word, I lay myself open to great deceptions. If the Holy Ghost guides us at all, He will do it according to the Scriptures and never contrary to them.

In Christ,


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2016/7/1 14:56Profile









 Re:

Act 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.

Paul is speaking about his conscience in regard to the matter Brenda spoke of as he stood before the high priest. He had a clear conscience long after the fact. He acknowledged that he caused a rucus when he says this..........

(Act 24:20-21)Or else let these same here say, if they have found any evil doing in me, while I stood before the council, Except it be for this one voice, that I cried standing among them, Touching the resurrection of the dead I am called in question by you this day.

 2016/7/1 17:20









 Re:

Quote:
by brenda7 on 2016/7/1 11:38:42

After all of the training that Paul went through and his important role in the church , it could not have been God's will for him to die because he went up to Jerusalem. God likes us to stay alive as long as possible when we have become matured but Satan wants to take us out and sometimes succeeds.



So true, "my people perish for lack of knowledge".

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, THAT YE MAY PROVE what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, WILL OF GOD.


 2016/7/1 19:56
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1977


 Re: Being led by the Spirit.

Men and brethren,

Why should it come as any surprise to you regarding Brenda's refusal to receive correction?

She has said in another thread, "Men are to submit to their wives as wives submit to their husbands."

God says,"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord." Ephesians 5:22

And the next verses leave no room for ambiguity, verses 23 and 24 say, "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject to Christ, so let wives be to their own husbands in every thing."

Tim, you said,

"Brenda, I never heard that view on Paul's actions in Acts 20, etc."

You ought not be surprised that you never heard that view!

After reading what she has said above about husbands and wives,everyone here ought to be on their guard of her, as she is in rebellion to the Divine Author of the Word of God, placing her own twist on the Holy Oracle.

The very judgment of God rests upon her even now.

Older women are exhorted to model a godly behavior, and in Titus 2:5 it is summed up in these words, that they're "To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed."

Do not call good evil and evil good!

 2016/7/1 23:25Profile









 Re:

Dear brothers and sisters

Thank you for joining in and commenting.

Can we please leave sexism out of my thread please? It only serves to bring contention. Please start another thread if you wish to discuss this savannah.


You seem to have missed this verse:

21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Ephesians 5:21

I am allowed to discuss whatsoever I wish within the bounds set by the moderator on this forum. It is not a church or a marriage and is open for men and women for expressing our views. It is not your forum and it is not banned either to have another slant on texts, and in fact, theologians are noted for their lack of spirituality so we should not be surprised to find that the conventional view is not held by those who have a deeper knowledge of the ways of God.

Despite what you said, I had an amazing time this morning in the supermarket when the presence of the Lord fell on me and I walked around softly singing the hymn - Lo He comes with clouds descending:

http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/l/l187.html

It is wonderful to be persecuted praise the Lord! Bless you!

Frank brother

I think Paul was refering to what he had said here:

12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:

13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

So he was answering the previous accusations.

I do know that the convential interpretation is that Paul could not see the high priest. I do not find that plausible. Paul, being a highly intelligent educated man, and a Roman citizen to boot, would have made sure that he was in a position to see and hear all that was said, as he showed himself perfectly able to defend himself.

The earlier incident when he was led because of his temporary blindness has nothing to do with his current problem I believe and his problem seems to have been with the written word which does not necessarily mean that normal seeing was also affected. I think that has been un-neccessarily added in. He was a tentmaker and so needed sufficient eyesight for that.

I also think that he may have been spoken to prior to the trial by the high priest so he would have been familiar with who he was and his position in the courtroom would have shown it too I am sure. No I do not think that it adds up.

I only speak of Paul in this way because I understand the state of sanctification he was in prior to his fall from grace, in not listening to the Holy Spirit. It is something that I am guilty of too.

Ron, I think that his subject is very important and can be of great help to us in our walk.

Sandra, we have to add the warning to what he disciples had been saying and their unity regarding disagreeing with Paul.

Todd:

" I think they saw it as needless waste of this apostle and were right to state their hearts on the matter."

Oh yes agreed. Everyone was against Paul though which is very significant to me. Being a martyr was nothing to be afraid of if it was God's will - they would have been rejoicing for Paul.

Sister Les

Paul was in a rather different position than the saints you mentioned - there were not many of them and Paul's journeys were so important and nobody else could do them probably. To have something happen to such a key worker at this stage would have been deadly to the spread of the gospel. By God's grace it was not. I don't think that it was the most difficult way that Paul chose, it was just at odds with what God had called him for. We are not to seek martyrdom but accept it if it comes.

Tim, Luke recorded what happened without comment on Paul. I don't see that unusual.

Thanks again brethren.


 2016/7/2 9:32









 Re: Being led by the Spirit.

Edit:

This is a very interesting topic and thank you for bringing it up, Brenda. Your first post has some real "pearls" in it and I will isolate them and talk about them, later.

But, in re-reading and studying the different texts, I have questions, I never had before.

I find it strange that God repeatedly warned Paul of what would happen if he went to Jerusalem. Paul was not a dense person by any means. Why did God need to tell Paul the same thing, over and over? God was clearly not warning the Church of Paul's coming sufferings, as the prophecies kept going to Paul not the Church.

Agabus did not go from church to church sharing his warnings about Paul, he only went to Paul. What then was God's purpose in warning Paul time after time after time? In all known instances in the Bible where God has repeatedly warned a man of future consequences related to his conduct and behavior, the purpose was always to stop him. God's purpose in Paul's case is made very clear in Acts 21:4.

Act 21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.

All attempts to work around this text that I have read seem to reject the plain meaning of the text.

I don't see any evidence that God ever directed Paul to go to Jerusalem.

In Acts 20:22, was Paul referring to his spirit or the Holy Spirit.

Act 20:22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:

Is Paul making a distinction between his spirit and the Holy Spirit? Is he (in verse 22) admitting, maybe unwittingly, that he is in bondage to his own desire, or to his own sense of duty.

It looks like to me that Paul's visit to Jerusalem was not for any good purpose and if he heeded the Lord's warnings he would have gone to Rome sooner. He would have preached there as a free man, maybe even stayed longer and gone onto Spain for more fruitful ministry.

Maybe Romans 15:28 was the Lord's true direction for his life. Could he have not fulfilled his true potential because he stepped out of God's will? An important lesson for all of us. Any wrongheaded detour for any of us will always be a setback for the Church.

Rom 15:28 When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain.

Did Paul present a strong witness to the Sanhedrin while in Jerusalem? No, he embarrassed himself and the gospel by his fleshly outburst against the high priest. Paul had no alternative but to apologize for breaking the law.

I think the scriptures are revealing to us Paul's disobedience and interestingly the scriptures do not reveal anything of his martyrdom so as not to exalt Paul, the disciple. The only hero of the New Testament is Jesus Christ.

The brethren and Paul's friends, finally gave up in trying to change Paul's mind. They accepted that Paul was determined and this was communicated to them in no uncertain terms as Paul's final word on the subject. God had choses to let Paul have his own way, even though He could have stopped him via circumstances or a vision or given him the grace to humble himself and admit his error. But, as in all of our lives, God gives us control over our own life so that we may learn lessons that regrettably can only be learned through disobedience.

This is not new: Paul is not the first to fail God.

1. Abraham lied about Sarah being his sister.
2. Peter failed God in Galatia.
3. Moses failed to enter the Promised Land by demeaning God through an impulsive explosion of anger.
4. David, lusted after Bathsheba. It was said of him that he was the "man after God's own heart".

The list goes on and on. God has a purpose in showing us the weakness, the besetting sin that clings to the best of men. No mere man has ever been turned into a hero. God won't have that. The only hero in the Bible is God. I know it is hard for us to imagine but even the great apostle Paul was imperfect. The chief of sinners was still a sinner.


(Edit: Originally I wrote, "The chief of sinners was still a sinner. This is not correct. Thank you, Brenda for bringing this to my attention. I never refer to saints as sinner so I mispoke on this and it does not convey by thoughts. What I was trying to communicate is that we are all mere men and can get out of God's will, sometimes. Even Paul. Peter got out of God's will in Galatia, yet all of his writings are inspired and trustworthy. David committed adultery yet the Psalms are trustworthy and inspired. Abraham lied about his wife being his sister, Moses sinned and was not allowed into the Promise Land. All of these men got out of God's will, yet God used them to pen a portion of the inspired Scriptures and they were godly men.)

Continuing:
I think the key was that Paul was not content to just bring the gospel to the Gentiles. And some hints of this can be found in Rom. 10:1 and 9:1-3. And I can understand and sympathize with Paul that maybe even dearer to him than the lost gentiles was his own people. He mourned terribly at what awaited those who rejected the Messiah. They were his kin and he knew except for the grace of God he would stand in their place. He was willing to suffer the wrath of God if many Jews could be saved and I think this is what was deep in his heart that undermined him and God knew the only way to bring this out of his heart so he could see and recognize it was to let him have his way. He probably thought God's command to not go was to only spare him further suffering and so he was willing, but as we all see, he did not accomplish anything by casting God's direction through the Church (many witnesses) aside.

 2016/7/2 14:04









 Re:

Then let us agree to disagree Brenda..........bro Frank

 2016/7/2 14:15
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Savannah, with all respect, I didn't correct Brenda. We are having a kind discussion, all of us. Brenda is holding her ground in her honest understanding of Scriptures. She has done so sweetly. If she remains convinced of the correctness of her understanding, so be it. It is harmless, so far as I can tell, to her and anyone else. Over all, the Holy Spirit will lead her into all truth as He does for all of us. She has no obligation to us to be persuaded.

I do not want my words, please, to be lifted and pasted in an accusatory way.


_________________
Tim

 2016/7/2 14:16Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by dolfan on 2016/7/2 14:16:53

Savannah, with all respect, I didn't correct Brenda. We are having a kind discussion, all of us. Brenda is holding her ground in her honest understanding of Scriptures. She has done so sweetly. If she remains convinced of the correctness of her understanding, so be it. It is harmless, so far as I can tell, to her and anyone else. Over all, the Holy Spirit will lead her into all truth as He does for all of us. She has no obligation to us to be persuaded.

I do not want my words, please, to be lifted and pasted in an accusatory way.



Thanks for clarifying for all the readers, dolfan. For me, I did not once believe you were writing in aggression towards Brenda. I really liked your post and thought it was really seasoned with grace and you are right, her view is very plausible and who knows, it could be the Holy Spirit's view?

There are two camps on this issue it seems and it has been around for a while. Respected men of God line up on both sides.

 2016/7/2 14:26





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