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Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3408
This world is not my home anymore.

 Don't forbid speaking in tongues


I am not starting a debate on this topic! I'm posting this for those who ARE INTERESTED. If you are not interested, PLEASE ignore this thread all together.


To those interested,

This is an excellent mini-sermon on the gift of tongues. If you have wondered about the seemingly contradictions in Paul's teaching, please listen to this, it's for you!!

If you prayed and prayed about receiving the gift, you will find comfort in this video, I believe.

There are many of us on SI who speak in tongues, if you are genuinely interested and have questions, please do not be afraid to ask them, one of us will do our best to answer you.

I just didn't want this thread to be shut down by any heated or unheated disagreements. Interested seeker's with questions are ALWAYS welcome!! :)

God bless you,
Lisa

Don't Forbid Speaking in Tongues by John Bevere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKB0wjVrvFM


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Lisa

 2016/5/14 21:33Profile
sermonindex
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 Re: Don't forbid speaking in tongues

Sister,

It was hard to follow all the point as he talked very fast, he did make some clear points towards tongues, in my reading there are just 2 types of tongues, tongues of angels and tongues (languages). One is heavenly and is not discernible by men and one is of a language of this earth a usually a testimony for the Gospel of Jesus.

It is interesting that other believers in different countries have different viewpoints in north american believers. For instance the underground Chinese church in a statement of faith says this:

"We deny any doctrine that teaches the cessation of signs and wonders
or the termination of the gifts of the Holy Spirit after the age of
the Apostles.
! We don’t forbid the speaking of tongues,1231 neither do we force
people to speak in tongues, or insist that speaking in tongues is the
evidence of salvation."
from: https://archive.org/download/principlesv4/64_StatementofFaith.pdf

I believe the belief of "initial evidence of tongues" was formed in America and is a denominational belief. This is mostly if not all an american thinking
of pentecostals. We are thankful for the fruit of such movements but
do not agree with the over-emphasis.

It is obviously not wrong at all to ask for the gift of tongues.


Interesting clip from Zac Poonen

Fake Tongues vs Tongues Of Fire - Bro. Zac Poonen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sYGs44idvA


A helpful article also, and here is an excerpt:

"If God gives you the gift of tongues, receive it and exercise it. Speak forth the syllables from your heart to God when you are alone with Him - anywhere - and especially when your heart is under pressure (through discouragement) or overflowing with joy. If you don't have the gift, don't worry about it. But be open to the Lord to receive it, at all times. Don't be against it and don't get into a frenzy to receive it. God will give it to you, if He wants you to have it, without any frenzy on your part. At the same time, don't believe that everything you see and hear in Christendom is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Test everything. Use your God-given faculties of discernment. If you don't have the gift of tongues, don't consider yourself inferior to those who have it. And if you do have the gift, don't imagine that it makes you spiritual or superior to those who don't have it. (Paul and the Corinthian Christians both spoke in tongues. But Paul was a spiritual giant, while the Corinthians were carnal!!)."

from: http://www.cfcindia.com/article/the-truth-about-speaking-in-tongues


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/5/14 22:26Profile
dfella
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Joined: 2010/7/9
Posts: 295
Canton, Michigan

 Re:

Sister Lisa,

This is exactly as I understand tongues,experienced tongues, and witnessed tongues.

Very good and sound teaching on the topic thanks for sharing this, I am going to pass along to many believers I know that it may to encourage them in their understanding as well.

God Bless


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David Fella

 2016/5/14 23:16Profile









 Re:

Not all tongues are understandable or of a language of this world. Unknown means unknown.

1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Very good, Lysa.

Thank you.

 2016/5/14 23:37
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3408
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
sermonindex wrote:
he did make some clear points towards tongues, in my reading there are just 2 types of tongues, tongues of angels and tongues (languages)


Dear Bro Greg,

I've always thought of two languages as well, but he had scripture to back up what he was teaching. My spirit witnessed with what he was stating as well through the gift being exercised in my life, I was like, "Well ok, now that makes sense!"

Quote:
sermonindex wrote:
I believe the belief of "initial evidence of tongues" was formed in America and is a denominational belief. This is mostly if not all an american thinking of pentecostals. We are thankful for the fruit of such movements but
do not agree with the over-emphasis.


It probably was birthed in America!! :) I never got that John said it was initial evidence of the Spirit. John did say, "Every person who is filled with the Spirit has the 'ability' to pray in tongues." Maybe that can be misconstrued as initial evidence? I hope not because I agree with that statement.

I went back and listened to it again (and heard things I missed the first time!) and at minute mark 8:00, he said about Jude 20, "that's why every believer 'SHOULD' pray in tongues" but went on to say that, "A person can be filled with the Holy Spirit and NOT speak in tongues."

Quote:
sermonindex wrote:
It is obviously not wrong at all to ask for the gift of tongues.


Amen brother, nothing wrong with it, nothing at all!!

God bless you!
Lisa


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Lisa

 2016/5/15 3:35Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3408
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:


dfella and Julius21, God bless you guys! :)


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Lisa

 2016/5/15 3:42Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Maybe that can be misconstrued as initial evidence? I hope not because I agree with that statement.

I went back and listened to it again (and heard things I missed the first time!) and at minute mark 8:00, he said about Jude 20, "that's why every believer 'SHOULD' pray in tongues" but went on to say that, "A person can be filled with the Holy Spirit and NOT speak in tongues."



Dear sister,

It is intital evidence without judging or putting alot of pressure. Which is a step in the right direction. I do believe not "all" have the gift of tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:30 New International Version (NIV)

30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[a]? Do all interpret?



also the idea of 4 different type of tongues I really do not see in Scripture.

1 Cor 14:22: "Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers" I believe it is clear that this is "language tongues" as on the Day of Penteocst.

v23: "everyone speaks in tongues" would be "angelic tongues" ie not discernible of languages of the world.


I do not believe there is an extra "sign" gift of tongues? Have you ever reviewed what Zac Poonen shares, there are some good things I run across in what he writes on this. He personally as many I am sure do in his Church speak in tongues.

I will not dig deeper unless asked as I do believe we need to discern and compare with Scripture the youtube teaching you posted of John Bevere, we do not endorse on SermonIndex all his teachings.

It is a wonderful gift to seek as all things from our Heavenly Father are pure and excellent.

ps this is one of the simpliest teachings on tongues I have heard and best:

Praying in Tongues by Jim Cymbala
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/myvideo/photo.php?lid=3603

If you are seeking to "experience" tongues watch this teaching of Jim Cymbala and seek the Lord at the end of the tape.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/5/15 7:09Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1756


 Re:

I do not agree with this message as well. Basically what he is saying is all who are filled with spirit can speak in tongues but they do not have faith to speak hence they do not. This is wrong, it can make anyone to just start to blaber something believing that it is tongue. It is not at all backed by scripture.

Secondly he says there are 4 types of tongues but explains only 2 types and says all other 3 fall into the other type.

I do not believe there are 2 types of tongues. There is just one type. I can explain without any contradiction on the scripture with just 1 type of tongue.

I will add more later.

I do pray in tongue.


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Sreeram

 2016/5/15 9:44Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3537
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 Re:

Thank you brother Greg for sharing the teaching by Jim Cymbala, which I found to be scripturally sound and well balanced.

I listened to the teaching by John Bevere twice in an attempt to see if there was anything unscriptural in what he was teaching, but I could not find anything.

I believe exactly like John Bevere taught that a person can be filled with the Spirit and not speak in tongues. But I also believe that anyone that is baptized in the Holy Spirit has the ability to pray in the Spirit if he or she yields themselves to the Holy Spirit and desires to have their personal prayer language manifested.

Not every one that is baptized in the Holy Spirit has the gift of tongues as it relates to the Church in which the gift of tongues is accompanied by the interpretation of tongues.

I agree with Jim Cymbala that in many Charismatic and Pentecostal churches there is too much emphasis placed on tongues, and the Corinthian believers seemed to have had the same problem, because that is why the Apostle Paul had to correct the excesses that were going on in the Church, but at the same time he emphasized the value of speaking in tongues. Then you have other churches that believe that tongues are not for today, and some even believe that they are of the devil.

When the Holy Spirit was poured out at Azusa Street, and the fire spread across the land, there were many missionaries that were baptized in the Holy Spirit that believed the gift of tongues that was given to them was a foreign language that the Lord would use as they went to other nations to evangelize the people. I have personally been in meetings where a tongue was an actual language and was confirmed by someone who spoke that foreign language.

Not only is a believer built up by praying in tongues, but as Jim Bevere said in his teaching, many intercessors that have a burden of prayer will release this burden by praying in tongues.


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Mike

 2016/5/16 2:11Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2003
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

I agree. I see two manifestations of tongues in the New Testament. One is the manifestation of the gift of tongues with accompanying interpretation. The purpose of this is ministry in the assembly. Not everyone will be used in this gift. I believe that is what is being said by the rhetorical question, "Do all speak in tongues?"

But I also believe that any believer who has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit can pray in tongues. Paul makes this clear distinction when he says that he thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than any of the church at Corinth, but that he would rather speak in a known language in the assembly. Obviously if Paul is speaking in tongues when he is not in the assembly he is not exercising a ministry gift of tongues and interpretation since those gifts are specifically for ministry to the body. Scripture says that the gift of tongues is for the edification of the body. Yet is says that praying in tongues is for the edification of the person praying.

As to the initial evidence, I have an observation to add. First, I do NOT believe that a person MUST speak in tongues in order to have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I think that perspective goes beyond what scripture teaches. Yet I see that in most instances in scripture, speaking in tongues accompanied the receiving of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I think there is a good reason for this.

I think the reason is that faith plays a huge role here. In order to pray or speak in a tongue unknown to you, you must exhibit faith. Anything that we receive from God, we will receive by faith. Receiving salvation, or receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit both require a response of faith toward God. I think speaking in tongues is often, perhaps even usually, that response of faith that allows us to receive the gift that God has given us. If I am praying with a person to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I will usually encourage them to take that step of faith.

I am not sure that there has been an over-emphasis on tongues, but I do think there has often been a wrong emphasis and even an odd or flaky emphasis in many cases. Many have focused on the manifestation to the exclusion of the purpose of the manifestation. It is much like focusing entirely upon saws and forgetting that there is wood to be cut.

According to 1 Cor. 2, we know the things of God by the Spirit of God, and being baptized in the Holy Spirit allows us to know these things in a greater way than we did before. When I do not know how to pray as I ought to pray with my intellect, I nevertheless know in my spirit because of the power of the Holy Spirit and the communion that my spirit has with His. This is why, I believe, that scripture makes it plain that when I pray in tongues my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. So when I do not know how to pray, I, by faith, pray in tongues, believing that I can be effective in prayer through the Holy Spirit. It is the purpose of tongues, not the tongues themselves, that should be the focus. When I am in need of edification, I get alone with God and pray in tongues, because scripture tells me that when a man prays in tongues he edifies himself. When I need wisdom and do not have it, I will pray in tongues over the situation.

I think tongues is an important part of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, else Paul would not have given it so much attention. But we must remember that tongues is not the point, but rather the tool that was given us to use in accomplishing the point. When our focus becomes misdirected, we get ourselves off track.


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Travis

 2016/5/17 12:57Profile





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