And in this message (likely here on SI) By Michael Brown (here on SI) does a good job very simply & logically explaining in context why all of the references to "Israel" &/or "Jew" in the entire book of Romans are NOT just talking about the same thing consistently throughout, as well as other scriptures specifically. "All Israel Shall Be Saved", Michael Brownhttps://youtu.be/dRcVOTpSZHI
RE: ///Sure, but specifically in the language (especially the use of the original words/language) surrounding Israel it says that "what God has scattered no man can gather & what God gathers no man can scatter."///What verse is that ?RE: ///It's actually the language people like Mauro (& others) used to say "Israel will never be formed again in the land". So being consistent is important.///Mauro, was using Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.This verse was understood by many including many premillinalist in Mauro's day to be alluding to the idea that : "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."
Saints,We are locked this thread as the original post has been discussed adequately. May God give us a heart to examine ourselves and see are we "conceited" or have "pride" as Gentiles who are offered the words of life but do not realize we believe because of Israel's transgression and rejection?The Word of God speaks to us to humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God. To humble yourself is never wrong but almost always right! this thread is locked.
_________________SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
We have now come full circle and we have fought and made our points a hundred times over and no-one has changed their position. What a shocker:-) Brother Greg, I would like to request that you lock this thread now if that is not too forward of me to ask?And for the sake of the ENTIRE Sermon Index community I would also humbly request that ALL OF US stay off these topics in these existing threads and refrain from starting new ones for a while. Can I get an amen???
RE: ///And I don't need to read all of Tertulloan to know he was an advocate for Supercessionism/Replacement Theology. This is well documented & commonly known (I have all the early church father volumes thank you), but I'm asking you, who said it was easy to answer Biblically, to answer the original question. It stands to reason that if "it's easy to answer Biblically", you should be able to answer it quite easily yourself?///If "You have all the early church father volumes" than how come untill recently you seemed unaware of the fact that non of the Ante-Nicene writings taught anything of a judeo centric eschatology ?The reason I posted Tertullian was because if you understood some of the early teachers understanding of Romans 9 and what they believed that the allogory of Esau and Jacob represented than you would understand how they would probably answer Mr. Browns Question. If they where incorrect with such views than In my opinion none of there writings or understandings should be considered (which is a view that I wrestle with also)I tread lightly because I can see both angles and that is why I have not answered the question directly.I have my assumption but my assumptions might be wrong and so I have to becareful of what I say.My position is that at this time I am not convinced of a judeo centric eschatology. but than again I could be wrong