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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : A CHANGE OF HUSBANDS

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Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1624


 Re:

I agree completely with Haydave,

For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin. 3 But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. :- 2 Corthians 11:2.

It is the Church that is the bride of Christ. We are all part of a global body of Christ if we submit and are part of a local body of Christ. People may fall from the body but the body will still function and will be married to Christ in the end.

Jer 38:40 does not mean what people here interpret from it. Here God is saying the purpose of the fear of God that he puts in their heart is we may not depart from him. But no where he has promised that we cannot depart from him. It is an extension of God's promise to believe so. It may appear right to extend his promise but there is a great curse for those who either add or remove to God's word in Revelation. We should never extend his promise to believe things that he has not promised us.

Many things that Tuc writes here have the appearance of truth but it has subtle lies of Satan mixed with it. Only those who have respect for entire counsel of God can discern it.


_________________
Sreeram

 2016/5/8 21:35Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1886


 Re:




The relationship between a son of God and his Father is not only eternal, but more intimate than that of a husband and wife.

Some here make this relationship so very impersonal and performance based.

Also, some of the very ones here, who insist that our being one spirit in covenant with Him may be dissolved, also hold that a man and woman in a covenant of marriage is indissoluble. Their inconsistency is very evident when the "one flesh" relationship as described of a marriage ends in a divorce, they will tell us that they are really still married.

But our God is so faithful to us, He has promised and has said, "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?...For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:35,38,39

If you continue to hold to one of Christ's being lost by separating from Him you must not believe you have been created by Him. He says in summary, to cover all bases "nor any other created thing" or "nor any other creature"(KJV).

Those who are of a contrary mind have a fundamental misunderstanding of God's Gospel of Grace.

I magnify the LORD, and say "O the depths of the riches of his Grace..."

 2016/5/8 22:37Profile









 Re:

God's faithfulness is not in question here.

Nothing shall separate us from the love of God; that is true. The only thing not mentioned in Romans 8:35-39, is you and I.

WE can separate ourselves from the love of God.

This passage in Romans is talking about things and powers outside of us. In other words, no third party can separate us from the love of God towards us. And God Himself says that he will never leave us or forsake us. (Deut 31:8, Heb 13:5).

But sin has always and will continue to separate us from God.

Paul, in writing to brothers says, "If you are living according to the flesh, you must die, but if by the Spirit you are putting to deaths the deeds of the flesh you will live" (Rom 8:12,13)

What happened in heaven when Lucifer rebelled, will never happen again. God will not allow anyone that is rebellious into heaven.

The grace of God is amazing, no question about it. But, He will not give carte blanche to unrepented rebelliousness.

Jesus said, "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

God is able to make all grace abound to those who endure until the end, for only those who endure to the end shall be saved. (Mt 10:22)

"We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain." (2 Cor 6:1).

Why did Paul fight so hard to rescue Christians (Peter) that were believing a false gospel. Because they would frustrate the grace of God supplanting Christ with the law and thus no longer trusting in Christ for salvation.

"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Gal 2:21

"For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a TRANSGRESSOR." (Gal 2:18).

CAN WE FALL FROM GRACE?

Paul speaking to brothers, again. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE." (Gal 5:4)

"I marvel that ye are so soon REMOVED FROM HIM that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel" (Gal 1:6)

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."(Rom 11:6)

"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." (Heb 10:38)

Remember, I said nothing shall separate you and I from the love of God, except you and I? All these verses I have given show that you and I bear responsibility for keeping ourselves in the love of God. The verse below, encapsulates the fact that God does not fail, but man does. Man can fail the grace of God, by refusing to repent and thereby hardening his heart and falling into unbelief. The grace is there, but we must continually be receptive to the Person of Jesus Christ, who is the grace of God.

"Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;" (Heb 12:15)

 2016/5/9 0:12
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1624


 Re:

Quote:

Also, some of the very ones here, who insist that our being one spirit in covenant with Him may be dissolved, also hold that a man and woman in a covenant of marriage is indissoluble. Their inconsistency is very evident when the "one flesh" relationship as described of a marriage ends in a divorce, they will tell us that they are really still married.



You have posted an interesting question. I am one of those who believe that we can always walk out of the salvation. I am also a firm believer that God hates divorce. Divorce is not a new covenant thing, in Old Covenant God permitted it due to hardness of heart (Matt 19). In new covenant a truly born again believer does not have a hard heart to divorce his spouse. Still he can harden his own heart to the extent and divorce as he has all rights to harden his heart.

Now when it comes to divorce and remarriage, I believe it is a sin as the person is already married to his or her first spouse. Marriage is an eternal covenant between 3 people, Husband, wife and God. The covenant cannot be broken until one of them dies. Either the husband or wife or God dies.

Now a husband or wife is free to walk away from this eternal covenant. They can stop being a husband, but the covenant does not become invalid. Instead they will be those who pollute the covenant and become unworthy of it. They can always repent and reunite, God will honor it. But being united in marriage to another person is not possible.

When many died in wilderness during Exodus for their rebellion, did God break the covenant with them? Did he decide no more promise land to the sons of Israel? His promise was still valid as the next generation made it to promise land. But the current generation that came out of Egypt lost it and become unworthy.

Hebrews 4:1:- Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.


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Sreeram

 2016/5/9 6:58Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1886


 Re: New Covenant





If you knew what was promised and accomplished, and by Whom, you'd repent of your attempts to prove otherwise.

We who are the sons of God are the benefactors of the covenant made between the Father and Son.

The performance/works based religion being taught by and defended by many is not God's Gospel of Grace but rather a disgrace.

See what Greg Gordon posted ( http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38752&forum=34 ) and perhaps God's Gospel Light of His Grace may shine brighter upon you.

Sing along with me, "Great is Thy Faithfulness..." rather than 'great is my faithfulness'.

 2016/5/9 8:03Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1624


 Re:

Quote:
We who are the sons of God are the benefactors of the covenant made between the Father and Son.



Please give me a scriptural proof that says the covenant is made between the Father and Son and does not involve us at all.

Quote:

The performance/works based religion being taught by and defended by many is not God's Gospel of Grace but rather a disgrace.



This is the problem, you cannot see the balance which the scripture actually says. The moment you hear someone disagree with you, you jump to conclusion that I preach work based salvation. I believe in God's grace just as anyone, and I have seen it work in my life.


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Sreeram

 2016/5/9 8:30Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1624


 Re:

As far as I see the scripture only disagrees with you.

Hebrews 9:15:- For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance.

Jesus Christ is a mediator not the person with whom God made the covenant. Mediator means someone who acts as a broker. Like a real estate agent who acts as the mediator between builder and buyer of house. The agreement is between builder and buyer.

I remember Tuc used to post such things like it is a covenant made between Godhead concerning us. When I asked for scriptural proof, he just vanishes! Hope you can give me a scriptural proof for your belief. Again it is a serious belief and should be backed by scripture not just personal feelings.


_________________
Sreeram

 2016/5/9 8:47Profile









 Re:

Who did God make the New Covenant with?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people;

Gentiles are grafted in by the same operation of faith and become heirs to the same inheritance which is Christ.

 2016/5/9 9:08
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1886


 Re: we are heirs




Re: this New Covenant/Gospel

Paul says that it was hidden for ages in the divine mind; that it was before the foundation of the world.

Christ speaks of promises made to Him before his advent; and that He came into the world in execution of a commission which He had received from the Father.

The parallel so distinctly drawn between Adam and Christ is also a proof of the point in question (Rom.5.12-21).

As Adam was the head and representative of his posterity, so Christ is the head and representative of his people. And as God entered into covenant with Adam so He entered into covenant with Christ.

This, in Rom. 5.12-21, is set forth as the fundamental idea of all God’s dealings with men, both in their fall and in their redemption.

The proof of the doctrine has, however, a much wider foundation. When one person assigns a stipulated work to another person with the promise of a reward upon the condition of the performance of that work, there is a covenant. Nothing can be plainer than that all this is true in relation to the Father and the Son. The Father gave the Son a work to do; He sent Him into the world to perform it, and promised Him a great reward when the work was accomplished. Such is the constant representation of the Scriptures.

We have, therefore, the contracting parties, the promise, and the condition. These are the essential elements of a covenant.

Such being the representation of Scripture, such must be the truth to which we are bound to adhere. It is not a mere figure, but a real transaction, and should be regarded and treated as such if we would understand aright the plan of salvation.

In Psalm 40, expounded by the Apostle as referring to the Messiah, it is said, ‘Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy will,’ i.e., to execute thy purpose, to carry out thy plan. ‘By the which will,’ says the Apostle (Heb.10.10), ”we are sanctified (i. e., cleansed from the guilt of sin), through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.’ Christ came, therefore, in execution of a purpose of God, to fulfil a work which had been assigned Him. He, therefore, in John 17.4, says, ‘I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.’ This was said at the close of his earthly course.

At its beginning, when yet a child, He said to his parents, ‘ Wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?’ (Luke 2.49.) Our lord speaks of Himself, and is spoken of as sent into the world. He says that as the Father had sent Him into the world, even so had He sent his disciples into the world. (John 17.18). ‘When the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman.’ (Gal. 4.4). ‘God sent his only begotten Son into the world.’ (1 John 4.9). God ‘sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.’ (Verse 10.)

It is plain, therefore, that Christ came to execute a work, that He was sent of the Father to fulfil a plan, or preconceived design. It is no less plain that special promises were made by the Father to the Son, suspended upon the accomplishment of the work assigned Him.

The Father did give the Son a work to do, and He did promise to Him a reward upon its accomplishment. The transaction was, therefore, of the nature of a covenant. An obligation was assumed by the Son to accomplish the work assigned Him; and an obligation was assumed by the Father to grant Him the stipulated reward. (Hodge)

_______ ______

If the above explanation, and the following Scriptures, don't suffice the reader regarding this New Covenant truth, I can offer no more to such persons.

Heb 10:1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“SACRIFICE AND OFFERING THOU HAST NOT DESIRED,
BUT A BODY THOU HAST PREPARED FOR ME;

6IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN THOU HAST TAKEN NO PLEASURE.

7“THEN I SAID, ‘BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
(IN THE ROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)
TO DO THY WILL, O GOD.’”

8After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN THOU HAST NOT DESIRED, NOR HAST THOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO THY WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11And every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

16“THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND UPON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”He then says,

17“AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”

18Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin. 19Since therefore, brethren, we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful

John 6:37 “All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39“And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 10:27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. 29“My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30“I and the Father are one.”


Hebrews. 13:20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord, 21equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.


 2016/5/9 10:07Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 1886


 Re:


You asked of me something in your last post, I'd ask of you now regarding this;

"Marriage is an eternal covenant between 3 people, Husband, wife and God."

"Hope you can give me a Scriptural proof for your belief. "

 2016/5/9 10:19Profile





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