SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Heb.12:28

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Heb.12:28

Some things i'm reading here on SI are making me ask some questions that looks rather childish, but they are important to me. Pls what does Heb.12:28 means in light of its context

 2016/4/30 12:30









 Re: Heb.12:28

Hello Iyke,

That is a great verse. Thanks for bringing that up and let's explore it a little bit. First, I will post it.

Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a KINGDOM which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

It means that we have received an eternal kingdom. Only eternal kingdoms cannot be moved.


Paul, writing to Timothy declares that Jesus Christ is King.
1 Tim 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

One cannot be a King and not have a Kingdom.

Born-again children of God have been made joint-heirs with Christ (the King). So, we have received this kingdom.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and JOINT-HEIRS with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.



If one receives the KING (Christ), they receive the KINGDOM.

What is the nature of the Kingdom of God? It is not physical (meat nor drink).
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.



Can the Kingdom of God be observed? Jesus says, No!

The Pharisees demanded that Jesus Christ tell them "when the kingdom of God should come".


Luke 17:20b He answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

And don't let anyone tell you that it is here physically or over there, physically.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

No, the Kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom and is within us. Remember, without a King, there is no Kingdom and the King (Jesus Christ), lives in us by His Spirit (Christ in us, the hope of glory).



Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

And as joint-heirs with Christ, we have been made "kings and priests" unto God.


Since this is an eternal kingdom, the full inheritance of it can only be found in one place: Reserved in Heaven for us.

Col 1:5 For the hope which is LAID UP FOR YOU IN HEAVEN, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

1 Pet 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, RESERVED IN HEAVEN FOR YOU.


The Kingdom of Heaven is only on earth through born-again Christians, the Church, the Body of Christ.

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory:

 2016/4/30 13:57
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 Re: Have received a kingdom yet still receiving

Heb 12:28 Wherefore we RECEIVING A KINGDOM which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

/Can the Kingdom of God be observed? Jesus says, No!/

Not so fast bro!

31 Even so you, too, when YOU SEE these things happening, recognize that the KINGDOM OF GOD IS NEAR. (Luke 21:31)

If we have fully received the kingdom of God then what did Christ mean when He said WHEN YOU SEE THESE THINGS recognize that the KINGDOM OF GOD is near. It seems to go along with the paradigm which I think is correct, meaning -We have "already" recieved a measure of the kingdom as a down payment but are still receiving. The powers of the age to come have been brought into this age (Heb 6:4-5) so we already are tasting of them yet we have "not yet" recived the full measure of the kingdom which will occur when Christ makes His second advent. Christ said in that day you will kow the kingdom is near by WHAT YOU SEE - "when you see these things happening." So the coming of the kingdom will be observable in that day and it's just as legitimate to associate the coming of the kingdom in that day as to believe that we are already "receiving" the unshakeable kingdom even now.

If nature is restored upon the second advent of Christ then this will be a highly OBSERVABLE aspect of the kingdom of God. What will characterize the kingdom of God in that coming day? Righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. The kingdom of God within now, His Spirit joined to our spirit (not observable) resulting in righteousness for us, though not obervable in many ways today (not all but many) will be fully manifest and visible in that day. I can observe and see peace and joy in believers today because of righteousness just as the fruits of righteousness, peace and joy, will be obeservable in that coming day but to a much fuller degree.

Blessings to you Brother Iyke.


_________________
David Winter

 2016/4/30 14:51Profile









 Re:

Yes & Amen. Well said David.

 2016/4/30 14:59









 Re:

Quote:
by Iyke on 2016/4/30 15:45:19

Thanks brothers, was blessed by all the post. The kingdom has come, and it is coming. Amen, amen and amen



Amen, Iyke.

We can observe the character of the King and the Kingdom in His Church.

The full consummation of the kingdom of God is "reserved for us in heaven", as Peter indicates, below.

The only way to "see it", is to be born into it. That is why the Pharisees could not see/observe it.

1 Peter 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.




 2016/4/30 18:52
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 Re: After heaven has received Him

/We can observe the character of the King and the Kingdom in His Church/

If Christ make His second advent to earth won't we be able to see Him and His character then?

/The full consummation of the kingdom of God is "reserved for us in heaven", as Peter indicates, below.

1 Peter 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,/

What happens after heaven has received Him?

19 Repent therefore and return, that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

20 - and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,

21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. (Acts 3:19-21)

God had just sent Jesus but we have strong indication here that He will come to earth again after heaven has received Him and a time of restoration begins.

/The only way to "see it", is to be born into it. That is why the Pharisees could not see/observe it./

After "heaven must receive Him until" - isn' it safe to assume He will make His second advent to earth after this and when, according to Jesus WE SEE these things happening that will signal His soon return we will know the KINGDOM OF GOD IS NEAR because of what we "see" (Luke 21:31)

Then the King of the Kingdom will no longer be in heaven. When the restoration of all things occurs will this be in heaven or on earth?

When eventually a new heaven and new earth are created do you think Christ iwll continue to dwell in heaven or on earth? I just don;t quite understand br your seeming aversion to anything earthly being related to the Kingdom of God. The plan of redemption centers around two advents of the Messiah to EARTH. In Romans 8:19-21 Paul spoke openly of the creation being released from its bondage also. Might this be the result of the Kingom of God coming to EARTH in its fullness andnot just remaining in a far away place devoid of anything earthly? WhY the aversion to the physically created order?

I'm just trying to throw out a few things for thought.

"Hebrew thought saw an essential unity between man and nature. The prophets do not think of earth as merely the indifferent theater om which a man carries out his normal task but as the expression of the divine glory. The Old Testament nowhere holds forth the hope of a bodiless, non-material, purely “spiritual” redemption as did Greek thought. The earth is the divinely ordained scene of human existence. Furthermore, the earth has been involved in the evils which sin has incurred. There is an interrelation of nature with the moral life of man; therefore the earth must also share in God's final redemption....The fact that man is a physical creature is not the measure of his sinfulness and therefore a state from which he must be delivered. Rather, the acceptance of his creaturehood and the confession of complete and utter dependence upon the Creator God are essential to man's true existence....Salvation for man does not mean deliverance from creaturehood, for it is not an evil thing but an essential and permanent element of man's true being. Salvation does not mean escape from bodily, creaturely existence. On the contrary, ultimate redemption will mean the redemption of the whole man. For this reason, the resurrection of the body is an integral part of the biblical hope."

(G. E. Ladd, "The Presence of the Future" (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1974). 59-60; also pp.63-64.)

Similarly, from a Hebrew Christian perspective, Baruch Maoz commented:

"It is true that redemption from sin is not to be conceived of in terms that are primarily material. On this point the New Testament is as clear as the Old, though much more emphatic. But salvation is not to be thought of as exclusively spiritual and moral, as if Israel's living in the land had no moral implications! The gospel message is replete with appreciation for the material realm. The New Testament makes it quite clear that the material is the arena in which ultimate salvation is to take place (Rom 8:18-25). thus reconfirming Old Testament expectation. Even our bodies are to be redeemed."

(B Maoz, “People, land and Torah: A Jewish Christian perspective,” in The Land of Promise (ed. P. Johnston and P. Walker; Downer's Grove, Ill.; InterVarsity, 2000), 196.)

"The gospel message is replete with appreciation for the material realm. The New Testament makes it quite clear that the material is the arena in which ultimate salvation is to take place (Rom 8:18-25). thus reconfirming Old Testament expectation. Even our bodies are to be redeemed."

Amen! Christ and the Hebrews before and after His day knew nothing of the it will all be a spiritual kingdom devoid of anything material or earthly.


_________________
David Winter

 2016/5/1 5:35Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
Canada

Online!
 Re:

Here is the larger passage in context:

Hebrews 12:18-29

The Mountain of Fear and the Mountain of Joy
18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.”[c] 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”[d]

22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”[e] 27 The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, 29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”



It is interesting in verse 26 He says He will shake the heavens and the earth, both! and it is the "removing" of what can be shaken ie "created things" heaven is created just like earth.

The Kingdom of God cannot be shaken as it originates in God Himself and is possibly beyond the created order? This does not nullify that there will be a thousand year kingdom on earth.

He will "create" a new heavens and earth in the end for the kingdom of God to dwell.

It is really beyond us as humans to understand these things fully. But what a wonderful picture of God's plan for His children and citizens of His kingdom, what a privilege to know Christ and be counted an heir!


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/5/1 6:03Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 Re: Two Models of Eternal Life

The Redemption of Spirituality and Materiality

"In rejecting the Platonic/Augustinian eschatological dichtomy between inferior, earthly materiality and superior, heavenly spirituality, the preferred alternative of both earthly materialty and heavenly spirituality in holy union should be carefully understood. Craig Blaising describes this essential distinction in the millennial debate in a manner that is well worth consideration at this juncture. He speaks of "Two Models of Eternal Life," the "Spiritual Vision Model," which is the presupposition or "preunderstanding" of amillennialism, and the "New Creation Model," which is the presupposition of premillennialism. The Spiritual Vision Model, understands the "final state of the resurrected" as being in heaven. Advocates of this view base it not only on 'biblical themes,"

"but also on cultural ideas common to the classical philosophical tradition. That tradition has contributed to the spiritual vision model in three basic convictions: (1) a basic contrast between spirit and matter; (2) an identification of spirit with mind or intellect; and (3) a belief that eternal perfection entails the absence of change. Central to all three of these is the classical tradition's notion of an ontological hierarchy in which spirit is located at the top of a descending order of being. Elemental matter occupies the lowest place. In the spiritual vision of eternity, heaven is the highest level of ontological reality. It is the realm of spirit as opposed to base matter. This is the destiny of the saved, who will exist in that non earthly, spiritual place as spiritual beings engaged eternally in spiritual activity....Following the classical tradition's identification of spirit with mind or intellect, the spiritual model views eternal life primarily as cognitive, meditative, or contemplative. With this point of emphasis, the place or realm of eternal life is really a secondary or inconsequential matter. In its essential reality, eternal life is a state of knowing [God]."

On the other hand, the "New Creation Model"

"draws on biblical texts that speak of a future everlasting kingdom, of a new earth and the renewal of life on it, of bodily resurrection (especially of the nature of Christ's resurrection body), of social and even political concourse among the redeemed. The new creation model expects that the ontological order and scope of eternal life is essentially continuous with that of present earthly life except for the absence of sin and death. Eternal life for redeemed human beings will be an embodied life on earth (whether the present earth or a wholly new earth), set within a cosmic structure such as we have presently. It is not a timeless, static existence but rather an unending sequence of life and lived experiences. It does not reject physicality or materiality, but affirms them as essential both to a holistic anthropology and to the biblical idea of a redeemed creation."

In other words concerning this more biblical perspective, materiality is not ultimately to be transcended, but rather transformed. Such a transformation is to be the rebirth that ushers in "the Messianic age [palingenesia, "regeneration"], when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne...judging the 12 tribes of Israel" (Matt 19:28). Then there will be a "new heaven and a new earth" (Isa 65:17, 66:22), that is, a spiritually renewed earth and cosmic order. Through the triumph of sovereign grace, both human and nonhuman aspects of creation, animate and inanimate, will be greatly blessed beyond the state of things prior to the transgression of Adam and Eve.

(Future Israel - "Why Christian Anti-Judaism Must Be Challenged" - Horner, B&H Academic, Nashville, TN, p 213-214)

I personally favor the New Creation Model which I believe is more inline wirth the Hebrew world view which is the prism through which the scriptures were written. Comments welcome and thank you Greg for your comments.

/He will "create" a new heavens and earth in the end for the kingdom of God to dwell.

It is really beyond us as humans to understand these things fully. But what a wonderful picture of God's plan for His children and citizens of His kingdom, what a privilege to know Christ and be counted an heir!/

Yes and Amen!





_________________
David Winter

 2016/5/1 6:10Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

David-

In your view, what is he timing of the creation of the new heavens and earth?


_________________
Todd

 2016/5/1 7:30Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 Re: TMK

I sense that you read right through my comments and their main focus and went instead to a quick gotcha question. I'm sure you already know what my answer would be so the asking is a bit of a quick skirting by anything brought up in the article.

What about what I discussed and provided some corollary comments to? I'm sincerely interested in why criticism of any future for Israel as a redeemed earthly nation being an intergral part of the Kingdom of God when it comes in its fullness is many times based on the notion that this can't be because the earthly realm is entirely inferior to the spiritual realm, As Hebrews 12:28 mentions, when all things have been shaken once more and the unshakeable Kingdom has come in its fullness will it be a entirely spiritual existence or will it involve any earthly aspects?

Meanwhile, I like your thread on Genesis.

Blessings.


_________________
David Winter

 2016/5/1 10:25Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy