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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 How do you classify this experience?

I want to share something with the group and get your opinion on it. I have had one 'camp' take issue with me on it and I am learning that that camp may be out in left field

2 years ago I was out running. I usually listen go my ipod touch and usually to a podcast. 3/4 of the way through I heard the word 'Seduction' within me and I heard it over my ipod touch. I startled me. I prayed about it and I was led to scripture in reference to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons and there were 2 areas that came to mind during this. The church is being attacked by doctrines of demons and many are being seduced by it. Guard your heart and guard your mind and learn to discern. The other one was about groups outside of the church that have a form of Christianity but are far from it.

What happened after this is that I crossed paths with a couple of podcasts that critique sermons. From it I learned what to look for in sermons and how subtle some things are but I also learned on my own to things to watch out for. 6 months after this happened I was visited by JW's. Hence I think I just saw my last pair this weekend based on how the conversation went. 18 months worth of conversations with 2 groups.

I also found myself jumping to a few other churches because I recognized what I was hearing was not a very good Gospel message. One church was a cross between Rick warren and Joel Osteen. Closer to RIck Warren. Another church...Baptist mega church...said that we had to plead the Blood of Jesus against Satan and take the war to satan. Well. the Blood is how we are forgiven. We don't plead it against Satan like a sword. Also, doesn't the bible say to resist the devil and he must flee? draw near to God and He will draw near to you? The battle is God's. So I Found myself in a confessional Reformed church. I love the preaching but I don't care for everything that is reformed but the message from the pulpit is why I attend.

I have also been helping a friend who is bound up in the Word of Faith movement. He sees it for what it is but his wife doesn't now. She also takes a feminist attitude in that men don't hear from God very well but men do hence women are more 'spiritual'. Danger zone so I have been exhorting him on what things he should do.


Now I ask you........is this a revelation of God to me? How do you discern this according to the bible?


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John

 2016/4/24 19:24Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453
Michigan

 Re: How do you classify this experience?

I had a very interesting experience with "seducing spirits and doctrines of devils." A few years back I became so disillusioned with the evangelical church that I threw orthodoxy out the window, embarked on a quest to rediscover the pure apostolic doctrine, and went pretty far afield in my reading and thinking. Heretical ideas would spring into my mind, sometimes in a flash of seeming "inspiration." This happened five or six times. I would develop a new doctrine, start to write it out, but then reject it because it was incompatible with scripture.

Now get this...within the next two years each one of these doctrines popped up in the emergent church movement! They popped up in places where they had not been taught before. New doctrines.

I believe that, because I am a small group Bible teacher, seducing spirits were trying to recruit me to error. What kept me safe was the conviction that the writings of apostles and prophets carry more authority than my own ruminations. Many emergent preachers do not ascribe to that standard, and so...

Another conclusion we can draw from this experience is that strange newdoctrines do not appear haphazardly. They appear at specific times for specific purposes. Lying spirits are not solo operaters, they are foot soldiers in a well-organized army, and everythng they do is part of a grand design.

"Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things." - 1 John 2:18-20 NKJV


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Wayne Kraus

 2016/4/24 23:00Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Here is my blog which tells the story of this incident.
http://jw-thoughts.blogspot.com/2016/04/a-revelation-voice-of-god-what-happened.html


Quite an intriguing story you have here.

Know what I did? I didn't put it in the blog but I went out and got a book about church history to read how the church grew after the Apostles died but because I don't know much about church history. Cults love to use church history to show that the Gospel was lost and they are restoring it.


Do you think the emergent pastors are doing what they are doing in order to be relevant? I certainly think so. I often wonder if the Nazarene church I attended is going in that direction.

Please share more about your experience. I would like to know even more.


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John

 2016/4/25 17:41Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Hi john-

We hear the term "emergent church" tossed around a lot.

I was curious how you personally would define "emergent church" without looking it up on Wikipedia or headhunter websites.


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Todd

 2016/4/25 19:04Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

I think emergent church would be defined something to the effect of being more mainstream friendly against the orderly 'old' church of Orthodoxy. Make everything pop culture friendly and that means taking away the message of sin, repentance and redemption of Jesus and redefining it as weakness and probably making church into a kind of self help meeting on Sunday's. This eventually ends in using the bible for what you can get out of it but not promoting it as the Absolute Word of God.

Emergent because it comes out of church and seeks make it 'fan' friendly.

What do you think? I gauge this simply because of what it sounds like against what the Church is about. It only seems logical. I don't know who the pastors are of the Emergent church though.


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John

 2016/4/25 21:39Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453
Michigan

 Re:

We could define the emergent church as "hipster church." The pastor dresses casual-chic and has a Mac on the pulpit (I mean podium). The worship team is a rock ensemble with an ear-splitting sound system, fog machine, light show, multimedia extravaganza, dancing ladies, etc. Most importantly, the Message must be intellectually respectable, in-touch and "relevant."

We know from 1 Corinthians 1-2 that if we preach "Christ and Him crucified" we will not be relevant and respectable in the eyes of the world. That is the fatal flaw of the McChurch: if we want to be perceived as hip, educated and culturally with-it, we have to avoid preaching "Christ and Him crucified," "for the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing."

Which brings me back to my story. One of the "heretical ideas" I had was to challenge the doctrine of atonement. The usual objections: It is unjust to punish the just for the sins of the unjust...What kind of God requires human sacrifice?...Why can't God just pardon sinners like a president pardons criminals?...etc. I came out of this blasphemous thought-experiment with the conviction that the mystery of salvation is far deeper than I ever imagined; so deep that only the Spirit Himself can reveal it to us. Human reasoning is powerless in the shadow of the Cross.

Well, less than a year later, big-name emergent preachers started denouncing the doctrine of the atonement. They called it "a vile doctrine" and "an obstacle to moving forward."

What a perfect example of the wisdom of man: "Let's subtract the sacrifice of Christ from the gospel so we can make Christianity relevant!"


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Wayne Kraus

 2016/4/25 23:48Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453
Michigan

 Re:

I should clarify that for the purposes of this discussion I am talking about the very worst elements of the emergent church and am not trying to paint the whole movement with one brush stroke. But this self-consciousness about appearing smart and cool and not-stodgy could be the downfall of the whole movement. We should not care too much about what the world thinks of us.


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2016/4/26 0:11Profile









 Re:

Good examples of what comes out of the emergent church movement are books like "Velvet Elvis" and "The Shack". If you want your blood vessels to explode just skim through these books and you will discover a fantasy world, laced with doctrines of demons. Many who follow down these roads turn to universalism and embrace gay christianity and everything else in between.

I was part of a church many years ago when Velvet Elvis was released and watched as this poison made its way through the body. The false teaching ripped through the youth first and the church members began to explore more and more false doctrine.

Eventually many of the young people fell away from the Lord.

The leadership of that church btw, never addressed the issue and has since suffered several scandals. It would seem that Ichabod is now written over her door.

 2016/4/26 0:46









 Re:

I think it is good to warn people about this movement as well as the "IF Gathering" movement for women which seems to be partly led by leading emergent church writers and Catholics who are already pushing emergent theology in the mainline denominations which seem to be receiving them with open arms. I have been saying for years that the Counter-Reformation has continued to morph into different movements and expressions through the centuries as Rome has very long range plans for bringing protestants "home to Rome". We have seen the ecumenical movement where leading Christian leaders along with Catholic clergy signed the "Evangelicals and Catholics Together" and "Evangelicals and Catholics Together II", documents and then together they signed the "Manhattan Declaration".

For a list of the signees with explanation of these documents:
http://www.seekgod.ca/ect.htm

Explanation "Evangelicals and Catholics Together"
http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A149/Evangelicals-and-Catholics-Together

Explanation of the Manhattan Declaration:
http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A390/The-Manhattan-Declaration

Now, we have the Emergent Church, which continues the mixture from Rome.

If you have any doubts about the Links between the Emergent Church and Rome, please read, "The Emergent Church Markets Catholicism"
http://www.bereanbeacon.org/new-blog/2015/10/5/the-emergent-church-markets-catholicism

Catholic Mysticism and the Emergent Movement
http://www.bereanbeacon.org/new-blog/2015/10/17/catholic-mysticism-and-the-emerging-church

Other articles on the Emergent Church and the Ecumenical movement: http://www.bereanbeacon.org/#/new-page-82/

There is so much mixture along with leading evangelical leaders supporting these strange doctrines that it is becoming more apparent to people why the Lord is calling His people out of these places.

 2016/4/26 0:54









 Re:

Yeah, amen.

Strange doctrines indeed. If I am remembering correctly, There's an excellent documentary online (I think with Elliot Nesch called "The Real Roots of the Emerging Church) on the history & origins of the Emergent Church. New Age Occultism repackaged for the unlearned & undiscerning "Christian". Dangerous stuff.

I think Joe Schimmel from GoodFightMinistries has a good one on the Emerent church too: Called "submerging church" or something like that?

 2016/4/26 1:47





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