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wayneman
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Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453
Michigan

 

It can also be said that doctrinal warfare is a form of recreation. An activity that achieves nothing is a recreational activity. Neither side in a Dogma War will ever back down, so firing the same proof texts at each other over and over and over again achieves nothing. So we must do it for fun. But what is so fun about hurling arrows, firebrands and death at each other?

Addicts continue in addictive behavior, not because they are having fun, but because they are addicted. Since religious warfare is no fun for anyone (or good for anyone) it must be a kind of addiction.


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2016/4/25 0:10Profile









 Re:

Julius,
I don't really want to get into it again. I am just honestly shocked you still don't seem to see (or want to admit) the error in calling those who disagree with your particular eschatological views as those of a "false Gospel, False Christ, False Salvation..." I don't want to dig dirt out of the trenches & rehash it. I mean you no harm, God as my witness. If you don't see the sin in calling real believers false ones (which would be accusing not only me, many others here including the moderators, & many of the featured preachers on SI), I don't know what else can speak to you?
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/4/25 0:19









 Re: brother Jeff

Neil,
not sure I have your email? Email me whenever you like at: "[email protected]"
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/4/25 0:19









 Re:

Quote:
by jeffmar1130 on 2016/4/25 0:19:06

Julius,
I don't really want to get into it again. I am just honestly shocked you still don't seem to see (or want to admit) the error in calling those who disagree with your particular eschatological views as those of a "false Gospel, False Christ, False Salvation..." I don't want to dig dirt out of the trenches & rehash it. I mean you no harm, God as my witness. If you don't see the sin in calling real believers false ones (which would be accusing not only me, many others here including the moderators, & many of the featured preachers on SI), I don't know what else can speak to you?
God Bless,
Jeff



Jeff, don't be shocked, just provide me the quotes.

I shared my thoughts regarding a belief system, not the character or salvation of individuals. If you can't provide the quotes, please stop changing my words as you are continuing to do (above). You know that is not true so why are you persisting? You are showing others how dishonest you are. I just re-read my first post maybe you should, too. Stop lying.

 2016/4/25 0:33









 Re: A plea to cease arguing

"I am just honestly shocked you still don't seem to see (or want to admit) the error in calling those who disagree with your particular eschatological views as those of a "false Gospel, False Christ, False Salvation..." I don't want to dig dirt out of the trenches & rehash it."

Brothers this needs to end once and for all, you are both bringing disrepute to the name of Christ by this never ending arguing.

Brother Jeff. I love you and love your heart and your passion and hope that one day soon we can chat by phone. But with all due respect I followed that other thread and I do not take it in any way that Julius believes that I or anyone else are following a false Christ or having a false salvation. You seem to want to read this into something he said. He has explained that is not what he said or meant and even apologized if he gave that impression. It is coming across as if you have a vendetta my dear brother and it is time to stop this and walk away.

Brother Julius. I have grown fond of your spirit brother and yet I disagree with you on many things:-) Brother your views about the end times including that the millennium is not a literal thousand years and other non-traditional views are different to what I was raised to believe. But thats ok because we agree on the essentials. With all due respect I have to tell you that although you may not have an agenda, it just comes across that way. Our brother Greg the owner of this site has asked that you cease raising these views and pushing your views in so many threads. The reason is because for whatever reason it just becomes divisive. For all I know you may be right on some of these counts, but they are non-essential issues. Because it is not your site you should heed the request of brother Greg and drop your quest to push your views on others.

I pray that we would all listen to the Holy Spirit in these matters and learn from the Lord and know when it is time to quit. But even more than this I believe it is important to walk in love and forgiveness towards one another. I hope we can all do this on this forum. Precious in the eyes of the Lord are His saints, and we must become just as precious in each others eyes as well. Lets drop these arguments and defer to one another in love. God bless you my dear brothers.

 2016/4/25 0:46









 Re:

Brother Mark,

Thank you for your post.

I did say I will defer to Greg's desire and not talk about millenialism and I am not posting on it anymore.

I would like Jeff to stop twisting my words. I won't respond to Jeff anymore, as he is clearly goading me. I sincerely apologize for responding to him.

 2016/4/25 0:49









 Re:

Julius/Mark,
The name of the thread started out as "Premillinealism, False Gospel, False Christ, False Salvation." And then goes on at length to explain his view of just that (that those who believe that "hear another voice", "have another spirit Jukius doesn't know", etc.,Look, I'm not sensationalizing or taking anything wrong. As TMK likes to quote Charlie Brown from time to time: Good Grief! Lol 😊

THE TITLE OF THE THREAD WAS (until I rebuked him for attempting to pull up wheat):

"Premillinealism, FALSE GOSPEL, FALSE CHRIST, FALSE SALVATION"

This isn't a study in etymology or semantics. That's what he called the thread. I'm not "taking out of context" anything. Honestly, I could read that to any of my 4 oldest kids (10-14) & through his thread to them & they could tell you what he was very plainly saying. I'm not bringing disrepute to the Lord. I have constantly said I am praying for Julius, have no ought or offense in my heart towards Julius, etc. but spelling out (a poor case of verses all out of context) & clearly calling everyone who doesn't agre with his eschatology "false salvations", "of another spirit", "following another voice than Jesus", etc. IS A BIG DEAL. Why can't anyone admit this (particularly Julius?)? And every time some wrong, smart-Alek, sarcastic, biting, & devouring, slandering & even accusing of not being the Lord's, behavior is called out, then all the sudden acting nice, innocent in the following posts, but never having humbled oneself to apologize or even own/admit it honestly? That type of "chamelionization" & not being willing to face it head on is actually what is bringing "disrepute" to the Lord's name. Theres more the Lord clearly showed me I don't even want to go into, but CLEARLY that's enough. That was no small thing. I am literally shocked if no one else seems to think it is enough to say, "hey Julius, you did pretty much say that, titled the thread that, not admit it, not repent, etc." As someone said before, I have kids too. 6 of them to be exact. And I know when they just aren't owning a major fault/sin against their siblings. I won't give them a pass until they see it, own it, confess it & apologize. Why? Because I'm "mean" or "I want to win an argument with them"? That's ridiculous, of course not. Because I love them & they must not know God's ways (& I take them to the Word) & that those kind of fig leaves & lack of love towards their brothers & sisters are not right, & God sees it, knows it, records it, & they will stand before Him one day and give an account. So I'm not making a mountain out of a moehill here. I don't even have to dig in the trash & pull out all the quotes (I could go back and show you sharp, sarcastic, biting, ugly comments for weeks, & somehow all when the subject of Israel's place in the Last Days, or a scriptural framework that would allow for that not to be just explained away, came up - for whatever reason?), but honestly, the title to the thread was enough. Isn't the fact that he put it up there & then when called on it, he changed it, saying what it is right there? "Oh, I guess I could have picked a better title, so I changed it"? Really? That's it after calling everyone false converts (but yourself and the handful of others who agree with you). "FALSE GOSPEL, FALSE CHRIST, FALSE SALVATIOlN" = False Converts. Does that even need to be pointed out and explained? But the content of the thread especially the ending didn't change - "MY SHEEP FOLLOW MY VOICE AND WONT FOLOW ANOTHER."...."I (JULIUS) DON'T KNOW THAT VOICE OF PREMILLINEALISM". Forget that these aren't blood of Christ, cross, Born again New Creation salvation issues for a minute (context), but see what is being played. I'm not asking you to agree with me Julius. I, at this point, am just saying be a Godly man, admit what you were really plainly doing calling those who disagree with your eschatology "false", admit/own it, & repent. If you're so focused on "the kingdom at work inside us now & glorifying Christ" (which I believe in by the way - but as your reason why you can't accept futurism or Restorationism), then why can't you humble yourself, man up & be honest, & repent? That seems pretty simple & straightforward to me. Really, I knew very little about eschatology, but day 2 of being "a new creation", I understaood that & if I did/did something wrong to someone (or a whole group of people), I went and humbled myself, apologized & asked for their forgiveness. Basic New Life Christian Behavior 101. I am not sure I can be any clearer, so I don't think it can possibly be me after this point. I really don't.
God Bless,
Jeff

And I'm certainly not "clearly goading you". That's the "play the victim card" friend. If you stick to those guns, that's your choice, but don't keep talking about me & telling me I'm twisting your words when all I have done is quote them. Verbatim.

 2016/4/25 1:28
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
Canada

Online!
 Re:

Brothers,

Please re-read the first post and others you would realize that your continual arguing, debating, and disputing is bringing shame to the name of the Lord and being a bad example to other saints.

Please re-read what has been posted and then you both using this thread to continue this behaviour, this is really unacceptable. I know that we all err at times but we cannot let this continue. It really does not matter the details of the end-times but are we living in preparation for them? Are we obeying and abiding in Jesus now? Are we sharing with a lost world?

As a moderator on SermonIndex, I am asking you to stop this repetitive behaviour of arguing and debating against each other, it is fruitfulness and ungodly.

James 3:14-16New International Version (NIV)

14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.


Please consider the next verses, may these fruits be in our words always dear brothers:

James 3:17-18New International Version (NIV)

17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2016/4/25 6:52Profile









 Re:

Greg

Part of this is YOUR responsibility to discern correctly
the agenda, heresy and false doctrine this individual
continually introduces to this place.
Do you think that keeping quite and letting satan having his way here is promoting revival, godliness, fellowship and pure worship to God?

This person gets into it with almost everybody who would dare to reject his/her heretical views. There is a method to their madness however and they seem to be able to pull the strings to promote their religion in this place . Sly and crafty, devious and deceitful, reminds me of someone we have all encountered from time to time.

 2016/4/25 7:37









 Re:

Greg,
That's neither my heart, nor intent, but I will respect what you're saying.
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/4/25 7:49





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