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 Re:

Savannah,
That all comes from a careful look and study at the whole Bible & all the words of the prophets, not just one or two verses run through "your own personal interpretation". Your post was also not very kind, & had a blunted end with a sharp point directed at me. That doesn't go unnoticed or undiscerned, but nevertheless, may God richly bless you in your study & understanding of His Word,
In Christ,
Jeff

 2016/4/27 20:46
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

Bear wrote:

"Brothers trying to keep it simple. I do see Matthew 24 as having reference to Jerusalem and the temple being destroyed in 70 A.D. But I also see a future fulfillment that is yet to come. Probably the signs being played out today."

I meant to bring this point up earlier but forgot- sorry about that.

My question is how do you deal with Mt. 24:34?:

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."


_________________
Todd

 2016/4/29 10:57Profile









 Re:

Hey TMK,

Isn't it interesting that John seems to use the plagues of Egypt in the book of Revelation to communicate something to us. I don't think he is communicating physical events but rather spiritual events. He goes so far as to explain this with the FROGS as the powers of darkness.

What do you think he is trying to communicate with the other parallels of the plagues in Egypt?

Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like FROGS come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

We know the dragon is not a real dragon, the scriptures tell us that. And the beast, we know is not really 10-headed or 7-horned, the scriptures explain that, too. All spiritual explanations.

I detailed all the plagues (yesterday), below with their OT scriptures.

Here you go:

I don't take these at face value, as John is clearly using analogies throughout the book. We are not used to the way John writes with our modern Aristotelian thinking of reason and logic so to us, everything has to be something we can see with our physical eyes. Back then people used symbols and analogies a lot. One thing I try to keep in mind is that in the OT, they dealt with physical realities such as enemies, the wilderness, altar, tabernacle, scorpions, lack of water, lack of food, manna from heaven, cloud by day, fire by night, etc, etc. These were all analogous to us of spiritual things, today. So, with that in mind, I think John is referring to spiritual things rather than physical things. Like I said, the second plague, John does tell us the FROGS refer to unclean spirits.

Plague #1: Blood
Exodus 7:20

And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to BLOOD.

Revelation 8:8-9
The second angel sounded, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea; and a third of the sea became BLOOD, and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed.

Revelation 11:6
These [two witnesses] have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into BLOOD, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.

Revelation 16:3-6
The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living thing in the sea died. Then the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and the springs of waters; and they became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters saying, "Righteous are You, who are and who were, O Holy One, because You judged these things; for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them BLOOD to drink. They deserve it.


Plague #2: Frogs
Exodus 8:6

And Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt; and the FROGS came up, and covered the land of Egypt.

Similar plagues in Revelation:

Revelation 16:13-14
And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like FROGS; for they are SPIRITS of DEMONS, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.


Plague #3: Lice
Exodus 8:17

And they did so; for Aaron stretched out his hand with his rod, and smote the dust of the earth, and it became LICE in man, and in beast; all the dust of the land became LICE throughout all the land of Egypt.

Can't find any parallel for Lice, (yet) in Revelation.


Plague #4: Swarms
Exodus 8:21

Else, if thou wilt not let my people go, behold, I will send SWARMS of flies upon thee, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people, and into thy houses: and the houses of the Egyptians shall be full of SWARMS of flies, and also the ground whereon they are.

Rather than "swarms of flies" some translations view this as "SWARMS of beasts" as noted in the Plagues of the Exodus article.

Similar plagues in Revelation:
Revelation 6:8

I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with FAMINE and with PESTILENCE and by the WILD BEASTS of the earth.


Plague #5: Pestilence
Exodus 9:1-3

Behold, the hand of the LORD is upon thy cattle which is in the field, upon the horses, upon the asses, upon the camels, upon the oxen, and upon the sheep: there shall be a very grievous murrain (SEVERE PESTILENCE),

Similar plagues in Revelation:
Revelation 6:8

I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with FAMINE and with PESTILENCE and by the WILD BEASTS of the earth.


Plague #6: Boils
Exodus 9:10

And they took ashes of the furnace, and stood before Pharaoh; and Moses sprinkled it up toward heaven; and it became a BOIL (SORES) breaking forth with BLAINS (SORES) upon man, and upon beast.

Similar plagues in Revelation:
Revelation 16:2

So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth; and it became a loathsome and malignant SORE on the people who had the MARK of the beast and who WORSHIPPED HIS IMAGE.

(Mark of the beast refers to the unbelievers. Spiritual mark not a physical mark. Just like believers have the "mark" of Christ).


Plague #7: Hail
Exodus 9:22-24

And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch forth thine hand toward heaven, that there may be HAIL in all the land of Egypt, upon man, and upon beast, and upon every herb of the field, throughout the land of Egypt. And Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven: and the LORD sent thunder and HAIL, and the FIRE ran along upon the ground; and the LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt. So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail, very grievous, such as there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation.

Similar plagues in Revelation:
Revelation 8:7

The first sounded, and there came HAIL and FIRE, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.


Plague #8: Locusts
Exodus 10:4-5

Else, if thou refuse to let my people go, behold, to morrow will I bring the LOCUSTS into thy coast: And they shall cover the face of the earth, that one cannot be able to see the earth: and they shall eat the residue of that which is escaped, which remaineth unto you from the hail, and shall eat every tree which groweth for you out of the field:

Similar plagues in Revelation:
Revelation 9:3-4

Then out of the smoke came LOCUSTS upon the earth, and power was given them, as the SCORPIONS of the earth have power.


Plague #9: Darkness
Exodus 10:21

And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be DARKNESS over the land of Egypt, even DARKNESS which may be felt.

Similar plagues in Revelation:
Revelation 16:10-11

Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues because of pain, and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their PAINS AND SORES; and they did not repent of their deeds.


Plague #10: Death of the Firstborn
Exodus 11:4-5

And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt SHALL DIE, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

Similar plagues in Revelation:
Revelation 19:19-21

And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him [Jesus] who sat on the horse and against His army. And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. And the rest were KILLED with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 2016/4/29 11:34









 Re: Todd

Bro at work now. Will try to respond to your question this evening or tomorrow. Good question though. Let me look at it and think and pray on it.

Blaine

 2016/4/29 11:48









 Re:

TMK, don't feel like you need to answer. Same with anyone else. I'm sorry, I should put this into a new thread. I think it will be an interesting discussion to try to come up with what John was communicating to the Early Church and what they were thinking he was writing about.

 2016/4/29 11:50
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

Good idea Julius.

To my shame and surprise I don't think I ever noticed the plague parallels in Rev.


_________________
Todd

 2016/4/29 12:01Profile





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