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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Christian Mysticism vs. The Holy Spirit

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narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1048
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi a-servant, I did not listen to that particular message but to another one that talked about the history of the pentecostal and charismatic movement.

I listened to the message while pulling weeds in my garden, carefully avoiding damaging the shrubs I planted. Then I thought that this is a picture of who we should discern; pulling the weeds and leaving the shrubs. Some of these discernment ministries just caterpillar the garden and pour concrete over it.

I agree with him to the degree that he denounced some of the aberrations and extremes of these streams. I came out of these when I witness the collapse of our church 10 years ago. I am too an opponent of this neo-mysticism that has infiltrated evangelical ranks.

This issue I have with men like David Cloud and Rudolf Ebertshäuser is that they cause much collateral damage to the good and right, too. It is like in the Vietnam war where they threw Napalm bombs on whole civilian villages in the hope to kill some Vietcong.

He bedevils all Charismatics and Pentecostals wholesale, focussing only on the extremes. That is a gross insult to the Holy Ghost.
There is a right use of these things. The devils tactic is to drive one to the extremes and turn the opponents into killers out of fear.
Men like him do not believe that there is a filling with the Holy Spirit to be received after conversion, because they never had the experience because they never fully surrendered to Christ.

Paul was not saved by correct doctrine but by the revelation of Christ. Then all his doctrine centered around the Christ he saw revealed. "I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision"

There are other discernment ministries, for instance the Berean Call from Dave Hunt/McMahon or Letusreason.org that give a far more balanced view of these current issues in the evangelical church, like mysticism. I have come across many discernment guys that are staunch calvinists or bitter and angry theological snipers, Shibboleth assassins, that strain a gnat and swallow a camel. Jesus did not scold the criminals but he had the harshest word for the heartless pharisees.

I am still waiting for your answer on my question earlier on, btw ;)

 2016/4/19 14:53Profile









 Re:

^^^^
This...yes!!!

This post above from Narrowpath should be required reading for everyone on Sermonindex who comes here to troll and post the rubbish I have seen on this thread. If you want to waste your time and poison your life soaking up the rubbish from discernment ministries websites, thats fine, but please leave it off these forums.

Thank you Narrowpath for this post. And keep doing this, you are sorely needed on these forums.

 2016/4/19 16:30









 Re:

Quote:
by awakened on 2016/4/19 16:30:00

^^^^
This...yes!!!

This post above from Narrowpath should be required reading for everyone on Sermonindex who comes here to troll and post the rubbish I have seen on this thread. If you want to waste your time and poison your life soaking up the rubbish from discernment ministries websites, thats fine, but please leave it off these forums.

Thank you Narrowpath for this post. And keep doing this, you are sorely needed on these forums.



Hello awakened,

I have been following this thread and can say amen to your post. Narrowpath has been presenting a very balanced view. His/her last post was excellent.

Jesus cautions in Matthew 13 to basically not become a "discernment ministry" thinking you can go around and discern who is a tare and who is wheat. Because, only Jesus Christ "knows them that are His".

Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, NAY; LEST WHILE YE GATHER UP THE TARES, YE ROOT UP ALSO THE WHEAT WITH THEM.

 2016/4/19 16:32









 Re:

"Jesus cautions in Matthew 13 to basically not become a "discernment ministry" thinking you can go around and discern who is a tare and who is wheat. Because, only Jesus Christ "knows them that are His". "

Man I wish I had learned this a long, long time ago...

...made many mistakes, I have.

 2016/4/19 19:28
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

"RE: He bedevils all Charismatics and Pentecostals wholesale, focussing only on the extremes. That is a gross insult to the Holy Ghost."

You should listen to that audio, he does not "bedevil" anyone. He goes straight to the root of the error, and explains it in simple words to everyone that is able to listen to biblical teaching. Do you have ears to hear? Most of your previous comments always attack the messenger or the media, never the case at hand. Do facts lie, because they are not smooth enough to swallow? Your view is a bit hysteric and exposes your understanding of what the Bible says in this regard.

"gross insult to the Holy Ghost" - Wow, I am sorry to see someone expresses the idea that a sound Christian teacher like him that came out of that movement by the grace of Jesus Christ and now tries to help others to come back to the truth of the foundations of Jesus Christ would in reality be teaching a "gross insult to the Holy Ghost". What do you know and understand about the Holy Ghost outside your presumed "experience?" You are the one that issues a wholesale condemnation here based soley on the assumptions that you have more insight than him.


"Dave Hunt/McMahon or Letusreason.org that give a far more balanced view of these current issues in the evangelical church"

I read both 10-15 years ago, and gave up on them because their balanced view is a view of compromise, far too many errors, I did grow out of that, these days everything that was hidden gets exposed for what it is. You can ignore that move of the Holy Spirit at your own convenience, I don't recommend it, honestly, a very dark idea.


"....that strain a gnat and swallow a camel. Jesus did not scold the criminals but he had the harshest word for the heartless pharisees."

Exactly, the heartless pharisees of our time uphold the consensual status quo of our time. and fight everyone that wants to go back to the real Jesus Christ and the real Holy Spirit. They hate it when their lies and misunderstandings are exposed for everyone to see, and have NO LOVE FOR THE TRUTH. Discernment is not judged according to its "balance" but according to its conformity to scripture.

Now to the previous 'shortcut of presumed alternative to thinking' terms like "cessationists". I am personally not a cessationist, my life is full of miracles of God and answered prayers. Jesus saved my life more than once, physical and spiritual, and I have seen wonders and healings in my own family. We also chased away real demons, and my accounts on other websites sometimes get disabled when I tell them about the power of the Holy Ghost to chase away and drive out these spirits. They just cannot handle that for some reason, apparently there must be a spiritual fight going on, and they do not accept the authority of the real Holy Ghost to drive out other spirits. Now if I look at things the way they are, and people tell me I should not read any so-called "cessationists" on these parts where they are obviously much closer to absolute truth than their critics because of their closeness to scripture that cannot lie, I once again can tell you what I always tell them: Drop your category labels, they just make you look "limited" and come back to Scripture. Don't be ignorant and only trust your experiences, they are not to be trusted just because they appear to be spiritual, the authority on that is in the Word of God, and exerience is to be judged by that. Let the Bible explain itself, everything is in there, let a wise teacher explain to you the misapplying of scripture in every human movement. Pentecostals missaply Joel 2:28 for example, among many others. They are basically anti-Bible because of personal experiences that are regarded of higher truth. That's why they are proud and almost unteachable, yet the hand of grace is always there to rescue the one that repents and returns. Every error that led us to the endtimes confusion is explained in the Scriptures, and teachers that have shown themselves approved to God can explain it to you.

Let the Holy Spirit of truth bless you abundantly!

 2016/4/19 21:07Profile





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