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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Do we really believe in the work of the blood of Jesus Christ?

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 Do we really believe in the work of the blood of Jesus Christ?

Saints:

I copied a post from another thread (For they saw that evil was come upon them - Dan Biser) to start a new discussion, Lord willing, on the blood of Jesus. I also discussed in this post what knowing the Lord truly means and realize that I could start a new thread on what 'knowing' really means, but I will just leave it as is and see if this will generate a discussion that builds up and does not tear down.

“The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin” (1 John 1:7).

In I John 1:7 we read, “The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” Is it possible that the word sin does not refer to the actual transgressions, but "sin" refers to the root principle, the very nature of sin? Not forgives, but cleanses. Is this not the complete deliverance God promises to His believing child?

We have not only slain many in abortion, not preached the full Gospel of Jesus Christ the Lord, not snatched many out of the fire, not laid down our life (Greek: psyche) for: Christ, the Gospel, the Kingdom and the saints, not walked in the same manner as Christ, taken vengeance in our own hands, neglected the widows and orphans, refused to turn the other cheek and love our enemies, but we have "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified" (Heb. 10:29).

Do we consider the blood of Jesus better than that of the Old Covenant's blood of bulls and goats? Is the blood of Jesus able to save us from our sins? Is the blood of Jesus able to save us from the guilt of sin, the penalty of sin, the power of sin, the body of sin, the corruption in the heart, the curse of the Law, unholiness, unrighteousnesses, a guilty conscious before God and man, love of money, love of self, all the deeds of the flesh, what the Law could not do as weak as it was through the flesh, from all sin and all unrighteousness, the corruption that is in the world by lust, etc., etc.?

Do we believe that Jesus blood is able to save us from all sin, unrighteousness and cleanse our spirit, soul and body so that He can come and indwell us through the Holy Spirit so that we will then walk in the same manner as Christ walked the earth? All in accordance with the following divine promises being fulfilled in the church in these last days:

“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more” (Jeremiah 31: 31-34).

“Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. “I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD,” declares the Lord GOD, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. “For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. “Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. “Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. “You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. “Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not bring a famine on you. “I will multiply the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, so that you will not receive again the disgrace of famine among the nations. “Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. “I am not doing this for your sake,” declares the Lord GOD, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel!” (Ezekiel 36: 22-32).

So, again:

Have we "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified?"

"For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.” It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb. 10: 26-31).

"I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?"

Faith in what brothers and sisters? Faith to say to the Master on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ (Matt. 7:22).

What does the Lord and Paul mean when they speak about knowing Him and He knowing us?

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matt. 7:23).

“I never knew you.” From Strong’s Concordance: 1097 ginṓskō – properly, to know, especially through personal experience(first-hand acquaintance). 1097 /ginṓskō ("experientially know") is used for example in Lk 1:34, "And Mary [a virgin] said to the angel, 'How will this be since I do not know (1097 /ginṓskō = sexual intimacy) a man?'"

“That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;” (Phil. 3:10).

“That I may know him,” is the same Greek word as in Matt. 7:23.

Knowing intellectually about Christ is the not the same as experientially knowing Him and continuing to abide in the experiential knowledge of Him abiding in us and being our Lord and God. Being under grace (God’s divine power/dunamis) and growing in this grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus, being led by the Spirit (“For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace”), surrendering our will daily and entire being to not doing our will or own way, but God’s will ("No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth”). For apart from Him you can do nothing. “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8). We cannot save ourselves EVER, but I believe that Christ does give us a choice as to whom we will serve each day.

However, the freewill is not the savior and Christ is able to break our will and bring us to the end of ourself. Whatever your view is on freewill it is still clear from scriptures that we have done nothing or can do nothing to earn our salvation, but we (i.e., saints) must obey and keep His commandments. I have struggled with understanding these things because I know VERY dear brothers who hold to a 5-point Calvinist view and those who hold a Arminian-type view of salvation: with Christ's help I hold to what Christ said: “Apart from me you can do nothing.” I need Christ in EVERYTHING I do!

"I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8).

The holiest place stands open wide,
Enter by the blood of Jesus;
The shadowing veil now hangs aside,
Enter by the blood of Jesus.
Enter now this holiest place,
Enter by the blood of Jesus;
Here He shows His shining face,
Enter by the blood of Jesus.

-- J. B. Foote --

KM


 2016/4/14 8:05
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1192
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Do we really believe in the work of the blood of Jesus Christ?

Brother Kenneth,

Yes and Amen!
Ha honestly, these words sound like the ones coming out of my mouth literally just yesterday!
I mean even some of the same verses being referenced and def in same context! (You referenced more)
Yes I believe we have been set free from the power of sin, we are no longer slaves to sin.
But honestly I've noticed the same as you, that most don't really believe the blood of Jesus had the efficacy to cleanse them of all sin.
Most I talk to believe they will always sin and guess what.... They do!
Most I talk to believe they will always get sick and guess what.... They do!
Everyday, well 6 days a week, I try to convince them otherwise as I serve them... Some respond favorably and will rejoice in the truth- others are just surprised and not really ready to be free- others still will argue that the bible says they'll always be sick and sin this side of heaven... I ask them to show me where it says that and sometimes the truth gets thru to them:)))

Once I had a client who came early and observed me ministering to another client and sat forward interrupting and said, "Fletcher I hear what you're saying and I'm glad the Lord has obviously been working in your life and you want to live holy but, Fletcher we're always gonna sin" to which I replied "well I won't argue or debate the point with you and im not trying to come against your church doctrine but if you'd let me I'd like to repeat back to you what I just heard you confess with your lips,... because I think it may sound dif coming from someone else's mouth". Now this surprised her but she agreed and so I continued, "I just heard you say that you believe the power of Satan to keep you in bondage to your sin is in fact stronger than the power of the blood of Jesus to set you free from it!,... cause the only thing keeping you in bondage is Satan and the only thing that free you is the blood of Jesus!!!". To this she sat back into the couch and one could see she'd never heard that before and it was a shocker.

It seems we've just settled for a gospel that is at best half the truth,...
its like we gorge ourselves week after week on the garnish but ignore the steak on the plate, and don't even wonder why we are spiritual dwarfs,...





_________________
Fletcher

 2016/4/14 8:49Profile









 Re:

Hello Fletcher/JFW:

Thank you for the encouraging words and exhortation.

Is your first name John? Ha, the world would be a ‘better’ place if we had more men like John W. Fletcher (1757–1785) in it: "'I went to see a man that had one foot in the grave; but I found a man that had one foot in heaven!' So wrote one of John Fletcher's visitors after visiting the godly preacher who had become gravely ill by his strenuous efforts for the kingdom of Christ" (christianitydotcom, Methodist Saint, John Fletcher, Dan Graves, MSL).

A brother recently spoke to me about the seriousness of understanding the atonement doctrine and what the blood of Christ is able to do for the child of God. I first came to know the Lord Jesus in 1992, but I have never heard it explained how this brother described it and ever since I have had the fear of the Lord come over me. Hence, I was hoping to engage in a serious, sober, honest, meek and diligent study with the saints on SI about the atonement doctrine, but it appears many are disinterested at the present time. Therefore, I will continue to study and post as new revelation and insight are discovered. However, I am hoping to hear from my brothers and sisters who have a soundness on this important doctrine and add to the discussion.

Sincerely thank you for your love of God, work and labor of love,

KM

 2016/4/15 14:10









 Re:

Hi Kenneth

Yes, today men do not wish to be cleansed by the Blood for they would have to turn entirely against all sin and walk as He walked, in entire submission to the Father.

It is the only possible At-one-ment,anything less is a travesty.

Keep writing brother!

 2016/4/15 15:39
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1192
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Brother Kenneth,

Ha! John is close.... it's James-

Btw, I'm not pushing a sinless perfection so much as a biblical perfection-meaning maturity. Being able to digest the meat of the word and not be carried away with every strain of doctrine that comes along...able to discern both good and evil (Hebrews 5:14).
Also I'd like to, like sister Brenda, encourage you to continue posting-
Just because you may not get a response doesn't mean people aren't reading... I read for years before I registered to post and gleaned allot from some salty saints that used to frequent here.
Tho they've moved on, that doesn't mean the spirit isn't still working here-
tho as of late there has been a few distractions, I believe the Lord will use this too to grow His children who hear His voice and follow after it.

Blessings upon you and yours:)


_________________
Fletcher

 2016/4/15 23:12Profile
mackaymarsh
Member



Joined: 2007/5/21
Posts: 132


 Re: Do we really believe in the work of the blood of Jesus Christ?

I pray this thread stays on topic and not get distracted in any way. Amen!

 2016/4/16 0:09Profile









 Re:

I agree Mackaymarsh, let's please stay on the topic and remember all the SermonIndex Community Guiding Principles, 'especially' in this discussion on the blood of Jesus let's adhere to the following principle:

"8. DIVISIONS AND QUARRELLING - Having a healthy discussion on a topic, doctrine or important issue is allowed on SermonIndex. But if the subject discussion becomes heated and there is quarrelling it would be better to agree with your brother publicly in what you can and and hold to what you believe against him privately. This calls for great maturity and wisdom in speaking in humility. It is better to agree with a brother that you are Christians and not divide over non-essentials. Let us go forward with meekness towards each other and having in mind the larger picture of the entire body of Christ. "I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought." (1 Corinthians 1:10). We have found that discussions pertaining to politics, conspiracy theories, calvinism/arminianism and others just produce strife and not the fruits of the Spirit so we ask saints not to start these discussion threads on SermonIndex."

 2016/4/16 10:59









 Re: Do we really believe in the work of the blood of Jesus Christ?

Saints:

I glanced through the following works on the Atonement: “The Atonement: The Significance and Necessity of Jesus’ Death, by The Rev. Albert Barnes, 1858,” “A Debate of The Doctrine of Atonement. Between the Rev. Joel Hume and the Rev. Benoni Stinson, 1863,” “The Governmental Theory of the Atonement, By John Miley, D.D., originally published in 1881,” and “Aselm and the Doctrine of the Atonement, By Basil W. Miller.” I was have difficulty reading through these VERY deep theological discussions on the doctrine. So, I went to the commentaries and found a lot of harmony in them as it pertains to the meaning of 1 John 1:7. My intent from the beginning of this examination of the scripture was to first hear what other saints had to say from their understanding of the scriptures and then thoroughly examine the Old and New Testament scriptures. Please find a quote below from MacLaren’s Expositions on 1 John 1:7:

“III. That brings me to my last point: The progressive cleansing of those who dwell in the light.

‘The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth from all sin.’ Now if you will notice the whole context, and eminently the words a couple of verses after my text, you will see that the cleansing here meant is not the cleansing of forgiveness, but the cleansing of purifying. For the two things are articulately distinguished in the ninth verse: ‘He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.’ So, to use theological terms, it is not justification, but sanctification that is meant here.

Then there is another thing to be noticed, and that is that when the Apostle speaks here about the blood of Christ, he is not thinking of that blood as shed on the Cross, the atoning sacrifice, but of that blood as transfused into the veins, the source there of our new life. The Old Testament says that ‘the blood is the life.’ Never mind about the statement being scientifically correct; it conveys the idea of the time, which underlies a great deal of Old and New Testament teaching. And when John says the blood of Jesus cleanses from ‘all sin,’ he says just the same thing as his brother Paul said, ‘the law of the spirit of life in Jesus Christ makes me free from the law of sin and death.’ That is to say, a growing cleansing from the dominion and the power of sin is granted to us, if we have the life of Jesus Christ breathed into our lives. The metaphor is a very strong one. They tell us--I know nothing about the truth of it--that sometimes it has been possible to revive a moribund man by transfusing into his veins blood from another. That is a picture of the only way by which you and I can become free from the tyranny that dominates us. We must have the life of Christ as the animating principle of our lives, the spirit of Jesus emancipating us from the power of sin and death.

So you see, there are two aspects of Christ’s great work set before us under that one metaphor of the blood in its two-fold form, first, as shed for us sinners on the Cross; second, as poured into our veins day by day. That works progressive cleansing. It covers the whole ground of all possible iniquity. Pardon is much, purifying is more. The sacrifice on the Cross is the basis of everything, but that sacrifice does not exhaust what Christ does for us. He died for our sins, and lives for our sanctifying. He died for us, He lives in us. Because He died, we are forgiven; because He lives, we are made pure. Only remember John’s ‘if.’ The ‘blood of Jesus will progressively cleanse us until it has cleansed us from all sin,’ on condition that we ‘walk in the light,’ not otherwise. If the main direction of our lives is towards the light; if we seek, by aspiration and by effort, and by deliberate choice, to live in holiness, then, and not else, will the power of the life of Jesus Christ deliver us from the power of sin and death.

Now, my text presupposes that the people to whom it is addressed, and whom it concerns, have already passed from darkness into light, if not wholly, yet in germ. But for those who have not so passed, there is something to be said before my text. And John says it immediately; here it is, ‘If any man sin we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for our sins only, but for the whole world.’ So we have to begin with the blood shed for us, the means of our pardon, and then we have the advance of the blood sprinkled on us, the means of our cleansing. If by humble faith we take the dying Lord for our Saviour, and the channel of our forgiveness, we shall have the pardon of our sins. If we listen to the voice that says, ‘Ye were sometime darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord. Walk as children of the light,’ we shall have fellowship with the living Lord, and daily know more and more of the power of His cleansing blood, making us ‘meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light’” (MacLaren, Expositions of Holy Scripture, 1826-1910, taken from biblehubdotcom).

KM

 2016/4/16 11:00
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1192
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Yes and Amen!

Have been in 1 John 1-2 for over a month now meditating and have come to much the same conclusion.
The question of what does it mean to "walk in the light as He is in the light" has been a most profitable one to search out.
I've found an interesting key in Amos 3:3, one of the best rhetorical questions in scripture,..."can two walk together except they be in agreement?"
Then Genesis 5:24 "And Enoch walked with God"...
These scriptures were posed by brother Keith Daniels at an SI conference a few years ago and they've stuck with me ever since,...

Recently I have understood this in a deeper way, it has brought a much greater confidence in Christ and much greater peace from God. His love and joy are far more a real part of my daily walk than ever before and this is just the beginning:)

While reading the article you posted the words of that old hymn came to mind....."be of sin a double cure, saved from wrath and make me pure"
sure made for a nice soundtrack as I read:)





_________________
Fletcher

 2016/4/16 14:15Profile









 Re:

JFW:

I just read a message from Spurgeon very similar to your post about walking in the light as He is in the light and the connection to the blood of Jesus, it also mentioned Enoch. Please find an excerpt below and the link to the entire message:

Walking in the Light and Washed in the Blood
C. H. Spurgeon.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another…

"You perceive in the text that the Christian is spoken of as a man who is in the light; but there is something more said of him than this. He is practically in the light, "if we walk in the light." He walks in the light of faith, in another path than that which is trodden by men who have nothing but the light of sense. He sees Him who is invisible, and the sight of the invisible God operates upon his soul; he looks into eternity, he marks the dread reward of sin, and the blessed gift of God to those who trust in Jesus, and eternal realities have an effect upon his whole manner and conversation: hence he is a man in the light, walking in that light. There is a very strong description given here — "If we walk in the light as He is in the light." When a schoolmaster writes the copy at the head of the page, he does not expect that the boy will come up to the copy; but then if the copy be not a perfect one, it is not fit to be imitated by a child; and so our God gives us Himself as the pattern and copy, "Be ye imitators of God as dear children," for nothing short of Himself would be a worthy model. But what does it mean, that the Christian is to walk in the light as God is in the light? We conceive it to import likeness, but not degree. We are as truly in the light, we are as heartily in the light, we are as sincerely in the light, though we cannot be there in the same degree. Having thus briefly sketched the character of the genuine Christian, observe that he is the possessor of two privileges; the first is, fellowship with God. "We have fellowship one with another"; and the second is, complete cleansing from sin — "and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin." The first privilege we will have but a word upon; it is fellowship with God. He opens His heart to us and we open our heart to Him; we become friends; we are bound and knit together, so that being made partakers of the Divine nature, having escaped the corruption which is in the world through lust, we live like Enoch, having our conversation above the skies" (http://biblehub.com/sermons/auth/spurgeon/walking_in_the_light_and_washed_in_the_blood.htm).

 2016/4/16 14:45





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