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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5478
NC, USA

 End times desperation

We all know that "end times" discussions are generally the most disharmonious on the forum. There are other disharmonious topics as well, some of which have been rightfully banned by the moderators.

I was wondering why there is such seeming desperation (on all sides of the end time arguments) that their view must be correct? I mean it is almost like if everyone doesn't accept my view as right then the sky will fall.

I used to be a 5 point dispensationalist- I had the charts and everything. The Left Behind books were simply confirmation of what I already knew.

Then I was introduced to some different ways of looking at end times from different sources. I was extremely resistant at first but as I paid more attention I had to at least acknowledge that they MIGHT be right and I might be wrong.

That is still my attitude today, several years down the road. I THINK my current position is solid, but I certainly can't rule out that other positions are not possibly true as well and I may be wrong. This is because-- let's be honest now-- the "end times" scriptures are exceedingly difficult.

My main goal in these end times discussions is to help people realize there are other viable alternatives. But there is extreme resistance (it seems) to accepting this line of reasoning.

So, why is this end times issue so extremely polarizing? Why can't we accept that we may not have it figured out? Isn't it best to know the various views so we will be ready?

Just some random musings. I dont want this to be a discussion of End Times views but rather why it is so polarizing. I'd like everyone's honest opinion.


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Todd

 2016/4/12 18:08Profile
Pnutty
Member



Joined: 2016/3/14
Posts: 162
Branson, MO

 Re: End times desperation

Polarizing due to Pride. Pure and simple.

Let God be true and every man a liar.

Or, let God know and every man guess.

The how to of Christianity, not so difficult.

The when will, is cryptic!

What I think we can all 100% agree on together is that things are getting worser and worser.


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Linda

 2016/4/12 18:26Profile









 Re: End times desperation

HI Todd,

I have never seen a desperation in those topics. There are a few who are doggedly against any kind of end time reality and they tend to follow those subjects around which I have never really understood. There are certain subjects I disagree with which I would avoid like the plague because my contribution would only add strife. For instance, head coverings, I can guarantee that I will never comment on that subject again. I wonder if the few folks who are uncomfortable with end times topics could maybe just refrain from the subject and pick a subject or post a subject that could be edifying? ......bro Frank

 2016/4/12 18:30
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

If I don't seem desperate on the topic, it is because I haven't tried. :)

Truly, I AM desperate on it. I WANT Jesus to come back, split Mt. Olive, take a throne in Jerusalem, resurrect the dead and judge every one. I want it. I long for Him to come as He left, glorified, in the flesh and fulfilling His every single word.

What I desperately want to know is what and when He will do it. Either we are not supposed to know or we are supposed to understand those mysterious and cryptic things He said for us to know. Frankly, I don't think anybody is right. I fully believe that everyone may be so wrong that it would throw us almost off the faith if we knew the truth, but for God's grace and mercy.

I brought up this very question at our home fellowship meeting Saturday night. Paul, Peter and James said the coming of the Lord was "at hand". Ok. Spin the roulette wheel and pick any one of dozens of views on what that means. Whatever it meant when written, it either didn't mean "at hand" as in "really soon", or it wasn't inspired of God, or we are so distant in time, space and circumstance that we will never ever know. An older loved and respected brother patiently and lovingly asserted the same, tired and unproved conclusory points that I have heard for years, but the unspoken upshot of what he said (and I didn't challenge him, mind you) was that the apostles under the inspiration of the Spirit did not mean what they said when they said "at hand" because all these other "triggering" events (i.e., Israel becoming a nation in a day") had to occur first. He said we are just now arriving at a point where these things can even be possible. I love him, but the apostles did NOT get that memo from the Holy Ghost.

IDK what to believe about it. I am about to the point of deciding not to care. It is impossible to know. I have actively asked God to give me the heart He gave to all the saints who lived over the past 2,000 years and who never troubled over the question. Most didn't.


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Tim

 2016/4/12 18:49Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2125


 Re: Rudeness

That's why the discussions became so polarizing. A few chose to be more than a little rude and unnecessarily barbed and it set hearts against hearts. If folks really want to it's not that hard to carry on a civil discussion in my opinion. Some of those called on their tone go right back at if by the next day usually as if nothing was said. A few poisoned the many in my opinion. What is ahead for the church - "that day shall not overtake you like a thief" - can be a great unifying theme for the church as the writings of the prophets are examined anew.

4 But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the Book until the time of the end. [Then] many shall run to and fro and search anxiously [through the Book], and knowledge [of God purposes are revealed by His prophets] shall be increased and become great. (Daniel 12;4 - AMP)

A sign of revival at the end of the age will be a renewed interest and examination of God's purposes as revealed in the writings of the prophets.


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David Winter

 2016/4/12 19:07Profile









 Re:

David,
Very Well said brother.

And if I have come across "uncivil" in my (written) tone in the forums, I do certainly here and now apologize. Certainly not my intent/heart. Most people who can get offended when they read what I write are pretty much almost never offended when we can talk & they can really hear my heart. That can get lost/misconstrued in written format. Something I continually have to try to be attentive to & continue to be willing to go lower in humility on.

Anyways, excellent points brother!
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/4/12 19:18
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 640


 Re:

Double post.

 2016/4/12 19:25Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5478
NC, USA

 Re:

Quote: "IDK what to believe about it. I am about to the point of deciding not to care."

I reached this point about 2 years ago. I care in the sense that it interests me but I don't really care who is right.

A bible teacher I really respect said that when he was filled with the HS during the Jesus Movement in CA, they were truly and sincerely of the belief that Jesus was coming back at any second. I mean people were selling their stuff and everything. They really thought it was happening. When it didn't, he got disillusioned about end times stuff and lost interest. Later when he really studied the word closely his views changed. But even though he can clearly make a great defense of his view he has no great interest in the topic.

I think regardless of what view we hold we can all agree on this: we are to be sold out disciples and ready and waiting. That is something we can surely be united in.


_________________
Todd

 2016/4/12 20:35Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 640


 Re:

I got lost, I am posting from a mobile device.

Repost (from memory):

I think in a way, it is an extension of the doctrine wars between the Arminian camp and Calvinist camp (to spare, John Gill, John McArthur, etc).

If we are not careful, the devil wins, whether we discuss it or or not discuss it.

Wise words brother Frank and docs.

 2016/4/12 20:39Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

I think I am going thru a dry spell in many ways, but that is ok. We do that. He is still with us un them. They have real transforming effect. But, no small part of it is a frustration with the things of the end and revival. I am -- emotionally at least -- close to getting very quiet toward the whole world about the things of God, getting very private about Him and with Him and a select few others, and living quietly and peaceably as I possibly can get along with doing. Not in protest of Him, but because I quite literally am at my own end and the best I will ever be for anyone is to pray for them in my own closet.


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Tim

 2016/4/12 21:01Profile





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