Carmine, where are you cutting and pasting this stuff from? Is it just Calvinist discernment sites or are you just making it up?

"What are some of these truths that would be so detrimental to the religious system? Have others shared these truths before now?"

/They teach that ALL PEOPLE will be saved irregardlesss of their acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Saviour. (Utter lie)

/They teach that that is no hell and eternal damnation for unregenerate and unrepentant Christ rejecting sinners. (totally false) (END)

Where did Grubb and the others say and write these things? Are there references where they plainly stated these things?

_________________
David Winter

Grubb became an apostate later in life as you now know. I understood beforehand also by the Spirit and the Word over 25 years ago.. And also the sister Judy confirmed by her personal witness and testimony. Powerful stuff.
The internet brought nothing to what was already understood except to confirm what was already been shown,
Sad that you and others endorsed this apostasy without even looking and praying about it.

Carmine,
Just as I suspected, you have nothing. You just revel in tearing down men of God with whom you disagree.

Nothing in the original post contains anything of which you describe, yet you felt that it was perfectly acceptable to come into this thread and trash Notman Grubb. That sir is despicable and you should have been sent to the time out room a long time ago to have a long hard think about yourself.

SI would have pulled Norman's material a long time ago if these slanderous accusations had any basis of truth.

Mark,

I love your term "Calvinist discernment sites." I call them "heresy-hunters." They call themselves "Watchmen on the Walls of Zion." Whatever we call them, there seem to be millions of them!

Norman Grubb rejected pantheism and universalism, but after he died some of his friends did in fact fall into these errors. Here in Michigan we have a ministry called Union Life Retreats, which took up universalism and thereby lost most of its people. Now they have about 8-10 attending their quarterly "conferences." Like the Calvinist Discernment Specialists, universalists seem to spend most of their time lobbing bombs at people who disagree with them.

If we condemn Norman for things his wayward disciples teach, we can condemn Paul by the same standard. His doctrine of salvation by faith has been misunderstood and misused for 20 centuries. Church father Tertullian called him "the Apostle to the heretics."

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Wayne Kraus

RE: ///where are you cutting and pasting this stuff from? Is it just Calvinist discernment sites or are you just making it up?///

part of what he pasted can be found at :
http://www.discernment-ministries.org/Newsletters/NL1991Aug.pdf



I do not know anything about Grubb but I just love many of Roy Hessions sermons here on SI

Brother Wayne, defending the innocent is pleasing to the Lord...your words are like soothing rain:-)

I remember the first time standing amongst a group of hard core Calvinists and uttering the name Charles Finney. Before I could hardly finish my sentence the knives were out and this man of God was torn to pieces. I was in shock and had no idea at all why they hated such a precious man of God. That incident (along with many others) taught me much about the "spirit" behind many of these "Calvinistas".

And they love to have it so.

"Norman taught that there really was no "us" anymore since our former self had been crucified at the Cross...the new self wasn't a real "self" but ONLY a container filled with God, living in God and we were now not only like God...we were God! (little Gods) roaming around planet earth.

This "revelation" was a big hit with people; mainly because we could just go on and live our everyday life without worrying if what we were doing in life was God's will or not. Because....it was all His will. But remember, we were still Christians and it didn't mean we now had a license to sin. (But it was a sort of get out of jail free card.) Of course there is a whole lot more, like what's in Norman's books. I had a hard time accepting that I was God because I knew somewhere inside that I was most certainly NOT God. I tried to accept and believe but I just never could do it. "

Edit: I had to pull this info regarding Barbara Aho's run-in with Jewel van der Merwe. Not that there was not any truth in it. I just had not vetted it enough and there seemed to be too much mixture in both camps.