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wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re:

http://theliberatingsecret.org/

Yes, I know Sylvia Pearce and her excellent website. She and several other of Norman Grubb's proteges all live on the same street in Louisville. The whole neighborhood is Union Lifers! Must be a great place to live. They are holding a "God Unlimited" conference in June.

But thank you for notifying me about their new app!


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2016/4/12 16:25Profile









 Re:

The founder of INTERVARSITY, Norman Grubb, testifies in his biography, ". . . from Boehme, most difficult to read because he could not easily put the depths of his illuminations into readable form, I got my answer, and to this day know no writer to match him. . . He is the last word to me. . . . I am saying that everything is a form by which He manifests Himself, much as my body is not exactly I, but an outward form of the inner me. This fact, gleaned through Boheme, confirmed through the writings of many others, with the foundations in Scripture, has given me my anchor." (ONCE CAUGHT, NO ESCAPE, Norman Grubb, Intervarsity Press)

Norman Grubb, and he is not alone, confessed to receiving more from mystic writings than from studying the Bible.

"These are out of bounds to the orthodox; but I have often got more from them than from normal Bible exegesis." According to his own testimony, during a time of severe despair and doubt as to the existence of God, he desperately sought for answers amongst the writings of mystics. "My answer came through the mystics and has been widening ever since," he writes. Norman Grubb, a man of unquestionable integrity and character, is a typical example of countless others, who, for whatever reason struggled to walk by faith and unfortunately turned to Gnostic ideas (Mysticism) to experience a sense of spirituality and a feeling of belonging to God.
Like Norman Grubb, numerous Pentecostals and Charismatics, in spite of all of their experiences, are floundering in doubt for lack of faith in God's Word and instead are searching for answers in mysticism - the spirit of Gnosticism. No wonder the masses are receptive to the modern Gnostic apostles and prophets.
GNOSTICISM
An abundance of information on Gnosticism is readily available. Many books and articles on the subject have been written. Old manuscripts with reference to gnosticism dating back to the early Church are not only available, but provide great insight into the teachings and influence of gnosticism on the world and in particular, the Church. W.H.C. Frend writes that "in the second century Gnosticism was a world-wide movement." (W.H.C. Frend, THE EARLY CHURCH, Hodder and Stoughton, London, 1965, p. 62). Gnostic sects sprang up all over the world. Jacques Laccariane says, "No sooner was Gnostic thought born than it began to be disseminated along the great routes of the Orient." (Ibid). Since that time Gnosticism has entrenched itself in the major religions of the world and not least of all Christianity.
Hopefully the following attempt to set out some of the basic Gnostic thoughts will at least help some Christians to be on guard against the "winds of doctrine" blowing through the Church. The great need in the Church is to discern between Gnostic thought and Christian thought.
Gnosticism is basically a form of mystical religious philosophical doctrines the early Christian sects spread and which the early Church vehemently rejected as heresy. Believers in Gnosticism are called Gnostics. The word "Gnostic" is derived from the Greek word "gnostikos" rr "gnosis" (inner mystic knowledge). The Gnostics believe that "gnosis" is subjective knowledge of the divine element or spark in every man that needs to be discovered to be known. They believe the divine spark originally came from the "realm of light" (totally alienated from the world and the flesh, and is resident in the soul of man and is held there in captivity by the flesh a product of demons). And the only way to release the divine spark is through divine revelation knowledge experienced in the spirit. Also they believe that only when the unconscious spirit in man is awakened by revelation from the "realm of light" can he come to know his real self - the god within.

SIX THOUGHTS THAT CHARACTERIZE GNOSTICISM
1. Man is Co-Substantial with God
As soon as man by "gnosis" {self knowledge) discovers and releases the imprisoned divine spark (spirit), he then starts on a mystic ascent to divine substance and on into the "realm of light". Through divine revelation knowledge experienced in self, man becomes conscious of his origin with God, his essence as God and his transcendent destiny - all God. The unconscious self of man (the unawakened inner spirit) is co-substantial with the Godhead, e.g. having the same substance or essential nature. This is the kernel Gnostic thought that has led to the creature being deified, worshipped and served more than the Creator who is blessed for ever.
2. For the Elite only
The mystic "gnosis" is only taught to the elite - those who have a special capacity beyond the force of reason and the flesh. According to Gnostic writings, this special capacity was imparted by a messenger bearing a "spark" of light from the "realm of light" even before the creation of the world. The goal of the Gnostic is the release of the inner man by virtue of gnosis (inner knowing) and his return to his native "realm of light". There seems to be a special "place" for a special "people" who are "especially" called out or chosen. That is how the spiritual elitism comes forth. (It is this Gnostic thought that is behind much of the aberrant teachings of the Latter Rain Movement.)
3. The Intuition of the Mystery of Self
The Gnostic concept of God is determined by the depth of illumination and revelation subjectively experienced "about God". The concept rejects faith in God the Person. The reference point for godhood is in self. Gnostic revelation must be distinguished from Christian revelation because it is not rooted in history and transmitted by Scripture. It is rather the intuition of the mystery of self. The dark cloud of mysticism that overshadows the Church can readily be traced to the Gnostic’s "intuition of the mystery of self".
4. Redemptive Quality
The Gnostic believes that gnosis (self knowledge) is redemptive and as such needs to be discovered and known. As a result of gnosis, man subjectively discovers, as a creature, the reality of his lasting unity with the transcendent God, that his life is immortal and that he is an ongoing manifestation of the light and the god that dwells in his inner self. This knowledge, it is believed, has a redemptive quality that takes the spirit in man to the ultimate realm of
light such as the fulness of God,
5. The New Birth and It's Source
Love and salvation are reckoned obvious consequences of "gnosis". Pure knowledge without subjective reality provides intellectual enlightenment that comes from force of reason and must be avoided because it suppresses the gnosis of Divine Reality. The only substantial evidence of Divine Salvation comes from within the self-consciousness of man. It is in the experience of the inner gnosis that the Gnostic is "born-again". The redemptive quality in man
must not be sought in the incarnation of God in Christ, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the Holy Scriptures or in faith through grace, but rather in the self-conscious seat of his own divinity. In other words, the fulness of divine self-consciousness is the source and evidence of the Gnostic’s "New Birth".
6. Divinity is Sought Within
To the Gnostic the mystery of God was already unveiled (at least in secret) long before the birth of Jesus Christ and even before the Scriptures were written. In fact, they say it was revealed and buried in man before the creation of the world. Therefore, the only way for man to know about God is through gnosis (self knowledge). As a result, he will experience and know the Divine Spark within himself and know he is a member of the Elite - a Manifest Son of God. "He who exalts and prizes above everything else, the Divine Spark within himself and sincerely believes that eternal life is found only in the Divine Element will be certain to come into harmony with all of life and thereby bring into consciousness the Spark of Divinity and so immortalize his soul. . . by obedience to the Divine Law, man attains unto Christhood, becomes the Son of God." (Jacques Lacarriere, THE GNOSTICS, Peter Owen, London, 1977, p. 43). The Gnostic strives to find God in the creation, i.e. in "self" rather than in the Person, Christ, who is the Creator! This pursuit winds up in pantheism.
Perturbing Trends
Unfortunately, Gnostic trends are developing at an alarming rate within the Church. As early as the Second Century, Gnosticism infiltrated Christian theology. Since that time, it has gradually saturated the Church and is now, in these last days exploding not only within the Church, but also within secular institutions. The world is being prepared for a predominant Gnostic religious form, a New Order that will govern a great part of the world before Christ returns.
Because certain popular theological concepts are not being measured and subjected to strict Scriptural scrutiny, Gnosticism is gaining a stronghold. As a result of new theological thought, even fundamental orthodox doctrines are being grossly changed into seed-beds for Gnosticism.

 2016/4/12 16:29









 Re:

Quote:
by wayneman on 2016/4/12 16:25:17

http://theliberatingsecret.org/

Yes, I know Sylvia Pearce and her excellent website. She and several other of Norman Grubb's proteges all live on the same street in Louisville. The whole neighborhood is Union Lifers! Must be a great place to live. They are holding a "God Unlimited" conference in June.

But thank you for notifying me about their new app!



Yeah, the app works much better than the website. Used to be the other way around. I think they just need some prayer in that area.

I have been wanting to go to one of their conferences. I will be in Ohio next week, and should check their schedule. Or just invite them further south. Definitely will check into the June conference.

 2016/4/12 18:29
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 454
Michigan

 Re:

From "My Fifth and Last Commission," which Norman wrote at age 95:

John in his First Epistle repeated it over and over again: We walk in the light, as He is in the light (1:7). We walk as He walked. (2:6) We know as He knows. (2:27) We live holy lives, as He lived. (3:7) We love as He loves. (4:16) We have a faith that becomes inner knowing as He has (5:4-5), 18-20). And summed up, “As He is, so are we in this world,” (4:17) for the very same Spirit who caused Jesus to know and say who He was (John 14:9) now causes us to know who we are. (Rom. 8:11; John 16:7)

Inner truth was always known through the centuries (read such a book as The Pilgrim Church by E. H. Broadbent), but these true ones were consistently martyred by the external church. They were intercessors for us and did the dying. Now in our generation it is not physical martyrdom and cutting off of heads for most of us, but plenty of cutting off of our reputations as sound or sensible Christians. So we are left physically free to go to the who Church in the whole world.

Now I reach my summit - at least I suppose so, at 95 years - and a last glorious participation in an “intercession in action.” Certainly it is the greatest for me because God, and only God, has brought this worldwide, church-wide commission into being without my having given one thought or plan for it. And as I go to my Lord, I leave behind nothing less that the first sproutings - precious believers knowing who they already are - of a worldwide harvest.

My one hope is that we who are linked in this co-knowing remain as structureless as possible. Being joined to One Body only, the precious redeemed Body of Christ, we have no need for membership, joining or official subscribing. We know only one truth: Christ Himself now living His own life in millions of bodies by the Spirit, until “we all come in the unity of the faith,” in understanding as well as a present Spirit-oneness, to that Perfect Man of Ephesians 4:13.

This last intercession is glorious indeed, but it also includes its very present dying that others may live. There is ostracism and opposition by many, even of the precious people of God, who remain in this confusion of and clinging to the false independent self. The Spirit has to make us ready for that final and highly dangerous looking death, where it remains only He as us. That unpredictable Wind “blows where it lists” in our newborn lives, as I can plainly see in the marvelous unplanned events of just my own life. You may also see where the Spirit has already gained intercessions by you in your own experiences; and you will thus be alive to the glory of such further intercessions, with their
commission, cost and completion.

The death-resurrection principle of intercession (see John 12:24) as the highest of our earthly callings is still known and entered into by only a few of the redeemed members of the Body of Christ. Plainly enough, though, Paul gave us his own experience in Romans 6-8. As he found so painfully and with difficulty in his Romans 7 travail, the “death” of that lie of our being independent selves comes to those of us who will stop at nothing in going what he called that perfect way of Christ as us.

But as we move in by the bold choice of faith (as by the affirmation of Galatians 2:20), the Spirit will bring us that same light of revelation, which Paul had. Inwardly we will “see” our wonderful God-made human selves as solely expressers of His Spirit of Truth in place of that false spirit of error. And we will settle into our true God-ordainedcondition, as out from us shall flow the river of the Spirit, as in John 7:37,38. Nothing then can stop us from joining what Peter calls “the royal priesthood” of intercessors with, as Paul said, “death working in us, but life in you.”


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2016/4/12 18:42Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2127


 Re: These truths

/There is a reason that the religious system does not want the Christian to know about these truths. It would be detrimental to their survival.

What are some of these truths that would be so detrimental to the religious system? Have others shared these truths before now?


_________________
David Winter

 2016/4/12 18:52Profile









 Re:


"What are some of these truths that would be so detrimental to the religious system? Have others shared these truths before now?"

They teach that ALL PEOPLE will be saved irregardlesss of their acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Saviour. (Utter lie)

They teach that that is no hell and eternal damnation for unregenerate and unrepentant Christ rejecting sinners. (totally false)

They teach "there is only One Person in the universe," "everything is God on a certain level of manifestation (nonsense)

They teach that thing but God exists (so you are God ALSO)

"The founder of InterVarsity, Norman Grubb, testifies in his biography,
. . . from Boehme, most difficult to read because he could not easily put the depths of his illuminations into readable form, I got my answer, and to this day know no writer to match him . . . He is the last word to me . . . I am saying that everything is a form by which He manifests Himself, much as my body is not exactly I, but an outward form of the inner me. This fact, gleaned through Boehme, confirmed through the writings of many others, with the foundations in Scripture, has given me my anchor. [Once Caught, No Escape, Norman Grubb, Intervarsity Press]
Norman Grubb confessed to receiving more from mystic writings than from studying the Bible. Apart from Boehme and William Law, other great mystic writers that proved a spiritual help to him were as follows: Saint Teresa, Meister Eckhart, Henry Suso, John Tauler, John of Rusbroeck, Walter Hilton, Plotinus, Angelus Silesius, Richard Rolle, Lady Julian of Norwich, Evelyn Underhill, William Kingsland and Rufus Jones. These names are well known for their Gnostic and even theosophical ideas. With reference to some of the mystic writers he said, "These are out of bounds to the orthodox; but I have often got more from them than from normal Bible exegesis". According to his own testimony, during a time of severe despair and doubt as to the existence of God, he desperately sought for answers amongs the writings of mystics. "My answer came through the mystics and has been widening ever since", he writes.
Norman Grubb is a typical example of countless others, who for whatever reason, struggled to walk by faith and unfortunately turned to Gnostic ideas (mysticism) to experience a sense of spirituality and a feeling of belonging to God. Like Norman Grubb, numerous Christians, in spite of all of their experiences, are floundering in doubt for lack of faith in God's Word and instead are searching for answers in mysticism - the spirit of Gnosticism. No wonder the masses are receptive to the modern Gnostic apostles and prophets."


These are new truths are only being revealed now through a few illuminated ones,
This deep and secret knowledge has been keep...... well you know secret for so many years that even those who knew it then did not know that what only they knew was being kept hidden from the masses,
Thank religion we can now all share in knowing what we did not know then
because it has been revealed to them in the inner regions of their minds and
this knowledge will free us all from something or other.

 2016/4/12 21:46
alamb
Member



Joined: 2011/9/5
Posts: 59
High Point, NC

 Re:

Around mid-late 70's and early 80's I met Norman Grubb and attended many meetings that he taught. These meetings were
held in a private home where Norman stayed as their guest. There were probably no more than 10-12 people that attended. Norman was invited to come as their guest for several days, a week maybe, when he needed some rest from his many engagements and busy schedule. During this time, my mother was very good friends with the family where he stayed, so I was invited to go with her to the meetings.(I was in my early 30's then.) My mom was mesmerized by this teacher and read everything he ever wrote until her death in 1985. I had been born again for a very short time and didn't know much about "deep Truth". Norman taught that there really was no "us" anymore since our former self had been crucified at the Cross...the new self wasn't a real "self" but ONLY a container filled with God, living in God and we were now not only like God...we were God! (little Gods) roaming around planet earth. This "revelation" was a big hit with people; mainly because we could just go on and live our everyday life without worrying if what we were doing in life was God's will or not. Because....it was all His will. But remember, we were still Christians and it didn't mean we now had a license to sin. (But it was a sort of get out of jail free card.) Of course there is a whole lot more, like what's in Norman's books. I had a hard time accepting that I was God because I knew somewhere inside that I was most certainly NOT God. I tried to accept and believe but I just never could do it. The thing is that it was so cunning that one had a hard time detecting the lie. Kinda like taking a gallon of pure milk and putting a tiny bit of poison in it, even if you can't taste anything but milk, it's still poison and not fit to drink. My belief is that there is Jesus and there is us. Yes, there is a mystery in that He is in us and we are in Him but that does not mean we are also GOD! I guess like Bear says, these are just my thoughts on the matter. But ever since this thread started, well, I wanted to tell yall what happened to me. No fighting please. If I am wrong, rest assured Jesus will set me straight.
I hope I didn't bore ya.
May our wonderful Lord bless the socks off each one of you.


_________________
Judy

 2016/4/12 22:47Profile









 Re:

Hi Judy,

I don't have any problem at all regarding what you said. We certainly are not God. I have read a few books and never got that from them, and of course no one can contest your personal experience. I believe you.

I know what Paul means by this:

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

And I know what is meant by a "race of christs", (small c), on earth in the proper context.

There are people that take teachings of many men to the extreme. We have seen that with very respected men such as Bob Mumford, Derek Prince and Art Katz. I am not saying you are taking Norman's teachings to the extreme. I believe you when you say you heard these things. I just have not read them. Doesn't mean that I won't, but I would like to see the entire context.

And, you did not bore me. :-) I appreciate your post and your willingness to share and the fact that you shared in a very loving manner. I know that I have been blessed by many of Normans' insights but when we defend men "to the death", we have made them our idol. So, I will take your words and warning seriously and be on the alert (as I always am) when I read anyone's books. As I said, even the most respected men of God are in error, sometimes. We have to test everything against the Word of God.

God bless you and thanks again,
J

 2016/4/12 23:45









 Re:

Carmine brother

I do not believe that Norman Grubb meant that reading the mystics was better than his own Bible readings. I am sure that he meant that it was more profitable than reading the exegesis of the usual writers or evangelicals, who are more than often than not, carnal believers and understand the scriptures in a shallow, outer way, missing the great spiritual truths buried away from the blind and deaf.

I have never found Norman Grubb to teach the things he is accused of and unity with Christ is scripturally sound. It is a great mystery that we are joined but still separate and l believe he has been taken the wrong way but those that oppose the Spirit, as has always been the case.

 2016/4/13 6:10









 Re:

Thank you Brenda for expressing what you believe about this mans teachings.
However as many have pointed out this deception is subtle and on the surface
what he taught sounds somewhat biblical. In fact as sister Judy previously posted by personal experience this man became spiritually unhinged later in life
and deviated from the Word of God significantly.

 2016/4/13 8:49





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