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Jeff you and I were posting about the same time so my last post may respond to yours.
Here is Christian persecution. "Will all Indiana troopers who identify as born again Christians please step forward."(They step forward). "Ok, you're fired."
It is not persecution for getting fired for doing something on your job that you are not supposed to be doing. You may choose to do it because God says to which is wonderful. But if you get fired you can't cry Christian persecution. But you can praise God for being considered worthy to suffer for His name.
| 2016/4/8 13:01||Profile|
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"On a side note what a praise to GOD that this man counted the cost and did not allow fear of the world to control his actions."
| 2016/4/8 13:03||Profile|
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So what happens if all of society says you can't share your faith ever by law, at the risk of loss of job, loss of home, etc. (bear with me, go with me for a minute to the eventual obvious end of your thinking/scenario)? So if you aren't allowed to share Christ on your job, & then do, and you get fired its not persecution? If we just look at church history, the historical & current church world around now, how the Bible & dictionary define the word persecution, etc.,again I think that you have an "America-Centric" shaped view/terminology/rules, not necessarily heaven's (or Webster's, Strong's, etc.) view/definition. I think to a degree there is the "frog in hot water" effect that has been so slowly implemented & upped step by step for so long we can't call anything persecution but your exact scenario. The funny thing is that the devil is a sly/crafty fellow & as long as you just think it's lawful & ok to be quiet on his terms, he's ok. Your view doesn't hold up if you take it all to its logical ends, figure that our society will "step by step", "progressively" grow more hostile to the (true) Gospel message, etc. I'm not trying to hyper-sensationalize it either. Just not trying to minimize & explain it away with human logic & reasoning (& "Modern American" colored lenses on either).
| 2016/4/8 14:04|
Okay let me ask a question. Not trying to be cynical. :-). In restricted Nations evangelism is forbidden. So if believers are sharing their faith in Christ and they are imprisoned, are they being persecuted?
After all, in a restricted nation, say a communist or Islamic nation, evangelism is forbidden. It is the law of the land. So if I follow the reasoning that Todd is laying out in this thread. Those believers in restricted nations that are sharing their faith in violation of the law are not being persecuted for their faith. There is simply suffering the consequences of disobeying the law.
Is that what I'm hearing?
Respectfully asked with curiosity.
| 2016/4/8 14:29|
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"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." (Matt 10:16)
| 2016/4/8 14:35||Profile|
| Re: Yuehan|
Good verse bro.
| 2016/4/8 14:41|
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That IS persecution. Throughout history, Christians have not been suffering strictly because they are proclaiming the Gospel. They were being beaten or imprisoned or reviled because they contrasted with the ways of the world. Paul didn't get persecuted in Ephesus because he believed a girl had a demon or because he preached Jesus strictly speaking. He was persecuted because the Gospel and the message of the cross affected someone's pocketbook.
What accusations were brought against Jesus? That he was stirring up the people and telling them that He was a different king than Caesar--which is against the Law.
We know that all those who want to live godly lives in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. That is because the standards and message of Christianity fly in the face of everything the world establishes as true and right.
Hebrews 11 clearly shows this regarding the suffering many of our forefathers in the faith went through.
| 2016/4/8 14:47||Profile|
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In countries where Christianity is outlawed that is persecution by definition.
As to the progression you mention and when it becomes persecution I can tell you this: I'll know it when I see it!
The problem with the state trooper example is that there are lots of things that you are not supposed to do during work hours that will get you fired.
Remember that the trooper has a responsibility to the taxpayer who pays him. Not every taxpayer is a Christian- in fact most are not. Minutes he spends witnessing could be spent catching criminals. I can't be on Facebook all day and still get work done. Now before you yell at me I am once again NOT saying he should not witness if he feels led to but he does so at his peril. But it is better to be in peril with your employer than with God.
He has their address since he wrote a ticket. He can always evangelize them after work hours.
| 2016/4/8 15:42||Profile|
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TMK is spot on about this. This trooper would have been fired for proselytizing others into Islam or Judaism, so on that count it should not be cast as persecution against christians.
Jesus never told us to proselytize everyone, everywhere at every time. If He did then everyone on this forum is living each and every day in total disobedience to Christ. He did tell us to be as wise as serpents, to be aware of our surroundings and to live carefully as lambs among wolves.
But if the Holy Spirit directs us to do any of these things then we should obey Him and suffer the consequences.
When I was a youngster I worked for the County as a welfare assessor. I had to interview people to see if they qualified for monetary assistance. I was not allowed to proselytize but in my zeal I did it anyway:-) The people that I saw were very poor and I had no trouble getting them to "sign up" to become christians as they awaited my decision about giving them government money.
Eventually my boss had enough and fired me. I considered that I had taken the risk and was able to share Christ with many people. I never considered my dismissal as persecution...that would have been ludicrous even back then when I was a wet behind the ears 22 year old:-)
Brother, I just wonder if you enjoy creating these kinds of posts and all the dust they stir up? Are you bored or something lol.
| 2016/4/8 16:06|
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Not trying to be ugly TMK, but I think sadly many don't "know it when it's right in front of them". If you can't share Christ at work without getting fired (& you can discuss other things), that by definition is persecution. When I was a kid, I would ask my dad where something was, if it was right in front of me but I didn't see it he would laugh & say, "boy, if it was a snake it would've already bit you". I think that's applicable here. Sorry, I just really do.
| 2016/4/8 16:07|