Poster | Thread |
| Re: | | Julias, this was my explanation to Todd on that subject just a few comments ago..........
"I am not so sure it means underground in the sense of what, for instance, we see in China or North Korea, although it may well do. David also uses the words visible and invisible in relation to the apostate church and the remnant church. One can be clearly seen and the other is there but cannot nessecarily be seen, at least until persecution rises and then there is a seeking out of the saints rather than a coming out." .............bro Frank |
| 2016/4/6 8:51 | |
| Re: | | Yep, I read that. Thanks, Frank. |
| 2016/4/6 9:06 | |
| Re: | | At this point the last thing the unsaved is interested in is focusing attention on the Church, either good or bad. They have legislated the Churches defeat in NA already. Through deliberate labels and marginalization our voice has been silenced. More self inflicted insults and wacko and bigot slurs will keep most Christians in hiding.
Marc mc |
| 2016/4/6 10:19 | | docs Member
Joined: 2006/9/16 Posts: 2753
| Re: Present wineskins | | Can the contemporary church, made up of truly born again Christ loving members, survive in the way it is nearly universally structured evertywhere? Will it be able to continue to meet in one central location which is usually a building of central focus and use or will it out of necessity be forced more and more to gravitate to the small home group home meeting type of structure? Will likely coming economic disruptions cause some churches to have to just shut and try another way because they way it depended on finances has been taken from it? I don't know the answer to these things but I've heard them bantered about at times and a bit recently. And I'm not altogether frowning on present church structures and building because after all, much good has come from this type and way of doing things. But what does the future hold for functionable church structure in this increasingly pagan and hostile secular culture? Business as usual or a change in wineskins? What awaits us? _________________ David Winter
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| 2016/4/6 12:07 | Profile |
| Re: | | David writes............
"But what does the future hold for functionable church structure in this increasingly pagan and hostile secular culture? Business as usual or a change in wineskins? What awaits us?"
I believe the writing is on the wall brother for " functionable," churches. The system itself is more historical than Biblical. It is like an onion, over the centuries it has taken on layer after layer until we have what we have today. No room for the gifts therefore no real room for the Lord to speak. The structure itself is fundamentally flawed whereby its very design silences God. That is not to say that there are not wonderful Godly people among the ranks of both congregants and clergy ( even that phrase is unbiblical)
I am sure there were many wonderful people within the ranks of Catholicism prior to the reformation. When the reformation came, they had to make a life changing decision to leave it, and of course they could have very well paid with their very lives. The Catholic structure and system was so broken and so ungodly that there had to be a tearing away from it, a coming out of Babylon, even although at that point it had been around for 1200 years. The Protestant system has been around for about 500 years. Time does not justify a fatally flawed system, it only adds to its difficulties because it becomes established. And their arises the keepers of the status quo........bro Frank |
| 2016/4/6 12:24 | |
| | 2016/4/6 12:39 | |
| Re: | | Yeah, the protestants broke away from the RCC spiritually, but not structurally (physically) as they continued many of the same things (lectern, pews, one person speaks, everyone else listens with no participation, etc, etc).
The spiritual structure will always be intact to all who call upon the Lord out of a pure heart. What does that mean? It means that they can meet in any locale, in any outward structure, (Building, house, cafe, under a bridge, in a prison) and have sincere fellowship with one another with Jesus as their Head. "Where two or more are gathered, I am in the midst of them". |
| 2016/4/6 13:22 | | sermonindex Moderator
Joined: 2002/12/11 Posts: 39795 Canada
Online! | Re: | | Quote:
Can the contemporary church, made up of truly born again Christ loving members, survive in the way it is nearly universally structured evertywhere? Will it be able to continue to meet in one central location which is usually a building of central focus and use or will it out of necessity be forced more and more to gravitate to the small home group home meeting type of structure? Will likely coming economic disruptions cause some churches to have to just shut and try another way because they way it depended on finances has been taken from it? I don't know the answer to these things but I've heard them bantered about at times and a bit recently. And I'm not altogether frowning on present church structures and building because after all, much good has come from this type and way of doing things. But what does the future hold for functionable church structure in this increasingly pagan and hostile secular culture? Business as usual or a change in wineskins? What awaits us?
Brother David,
These are excellent questions you are asking. It is becoming more clear year by year in North America, that increased pressures are coming. A prophecy like this from David Wilkerson is becoming very self-apparent, though 30 years ago when it was first shared it seemed perhaps strange. God has been speaking through many saints in the last 5 years specifically of a coming sudden persecution to North America. This will force many to meet as believers in different ways just like other countries around the world where it is illegal to be a Christian. When we dig further we see that meeting in house churches and smaller gatherings is not just something believers do when there are pressures, but it was the model in the Book of Acts.
It seems there has always been an underground church where God has had his work and those relying on the Holy Spirit and not traditions of men.
We are encouraging a resource to saints to start to meet in home churches and smaller gatherings, it is available in audio here: http://housechurchbook.weebly.com
May God guide His people in the coming dark days ahead in North America.
_________________ SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| 2016/4/7 3:45 | Profile | sermonindex Moderator
Joined: 2002/12/11 Posts: 39795 Canada
Online! | Re: | | Quote:
I believe that genuine saints will always share the truth in love, no matter what and be led of the Lord. So, while it made no sense to anyone that Paul would go to Jerusalem after it was prophesied what would happen to him there, he goes anyway because he is being led and being obedient despite what would happen to him. This is the same Paul who at times was let down in baskets at nigh-time to escape certain cities and at other times uses his Roman citizenship to avoid getting scourged. Bottom line, it is Spirit led and that is why it is so important to be led by the Spirit ultimately rather than by the often well meaning wisdom of men
Amen brother Frank. _________________ SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| 2016/4/7 3:48 | Profile | docs Member
Joined: 2006/9/16 Posts: 2753
| Re: Intimate fellowship | | All I can say with truth is that for the past year or so yte smallish moderately few in number times of fellowship I have had with other saints have been the most ediying and even precious. It's just utterly amazing what God has place in each member of His body. Older saints, younger saints. What a group God has kneaded together and when they open up and share and we worship and sing together you know Jesus of Nazareth is among you and speaking through His individual members. Our pastor told me the other day that Sunday services are fine and okay but the true fellowshiop and edification comes in the small group wineskins. We have a pretty good idea at this moment of what is coming to the world and this country even if we don't have the outright details. It's probably likely though that the "institutional" structure (which isn't all evil and bad) will undergo some necessary changes in wineskins. As always, Christ will continue to be mighty.
"Lo I am with you always, even unto the end of the age."
Amen. _________________ David Winter
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| 2016/4/7 7:54 | Profile |
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