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Renee_is_His
Member



Joined: 2016/3/9
Posts: 73
Arkansas

 Re:

Dominic,
Pray, seek the Lord and let Him prepare you while you are single; for the ministry of marriage and/or leadership in the church.


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Renee

 2016/3/18 11:44Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

MrBillPro,

I most certainly agree that Jesus was single, as per His qualifications for Messiah--an office no one can attain to except for Christ.

I most certainly don't believe that single people cannot minister. But there are some offices that, biblically, are more suited to those who are married.

I would not want a single man teaching the "young, married couples class". Nor would I want a youth to be leading the youth group. I always wouldn't want a 30 year old man teaching the "young, single women's" class (if there were such a class). See what I mean?

 2016/3/18 12:47Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1792
Hemel Hempstead

 Re: Qualifications of a Pastor and being single, not married

My dad was formally a pastor and I went through three çhurch splits and I have suffered abuse and no what leadership entails ,
As being a former pastor son I only want to be a leader in church only if I folllow the qualifications of scripture are suited to my life as pride and once you become a leader the amount of abuse and other things that you get behind close doors are hard .
In univeristy I wrote a paper on the difference between biblical leadership and business leadership such as theory y and x theory. Most churches are run like business not like churches.
Being a pastors son actually scared me fromgoing in the pulpit as I love preaching on the street but not in church.
I love John Wesley where he states the phrase the world is my parish. I would only preach in church if I am married and follow the Titus and Timothy guidelines , I do not want to preach in church unless it is the lords will , even on the street I was so nervous at preaching I would shake .
I have seen so many pastors fall over pride or being persuaded into the ministry and it is not gods will

Everyone wants to be a leader unless they have actually had the burden of leadership thats why I would rather it be Gods will for me to be a leader rather than my own strength.

James 3:1
1My brethren, be not many teachers, knowing that we shall receive the severer judgment
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

David in the scriptures spent years in anonymity before he became a leader and so did Moses.

In Samuel you have so many examples people like Absolom who tried to usurp power of King David and other


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Dominic Shiells

 2016/3/18 13:34Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1997
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Me & another brother/leader of our home fellowship talked about this before. While the seemingly clearest indicators are that he is referring in that passage to not having multiple wives (having multiple wives, at once - ie polygamy) was still not terribly uncommon in that day/culture), there is also some wisdom in selecting a man who has a wife & children & that being the "proving ground" in a sense for his ability to shepherd/lead/minister. Not as a "law", but at least seeing the general principle of it being a proving ground. Even the scripture backing this idea when it speaks of (somewhat paraphrased): if one cannot lead his own family (concerning his children being in order, his ministry to his wife, etc.), then how can rule in the house of God?



I agree with Jeff here. I have studied this verse quite a few times. Many of the well known commentators believe that this verse does refer to multiple wives and the plain reading of the text seems to indicate this as well.

The qualifications listed in these verses are for anyone who desires to be an elder, or an overseer in the body of Christ. It is possible that a person who is in eldership also has the grace gift of pastor upon them, and it is possible that they don't. I think that, at a bare minimum, a person who is called into ministry leadership of any sort needs to demonstrate these qualifications. More importantly, I think that a person needs to be sure of the calling. A pastor, evangelist, teacher, apostle, or prophet is not a position to which one can aspire, but rather a calling and a gift that God places upon a man's life.

The calling and the fulfillment of that calling are not necessarily simultaneous. There is the acknowledgement of the calling, then the preparation for the calling, and then the setting into the calling that should happen only when the Holy Spirit say, "It's now time." This happened with Paul. He was hanging out with a group of prophets and teachers when the Holy Spirit spoke to the prophets and teachers and said, "Now, separate me Paul to the work for which I have chosen him." They ordained him by the laying on of hands and prayer and set him into his apostleship. The same is true of the five ministry gifts today, or at least it should be.


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Travis

 2016/3/18 16:40Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

In regards to this passage, there are a couple of things that I gather.

1) The qualification for a 1-woman man does indeed dismiss any polygamist from holding the office of overseer. It also dismisses any man who was divorced for illegitimate reasons and then remarried, because the divorce is not recognized by the One with whom the marriage covenant was made--i.e. the LORD.

2) The qualification that potentially dismisses single men is not the one-woman man qualification, but the qualifications found in verses 4-5

"...one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence 5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?)..."

This is a Biblical test that helps us determine if a man is qualified as an elder. Putting the caveat "if" in this statement would be easy. It's not in there though.

I am a single man and I do desire to be an Elder one day, but I reject opportunities to lead churches that I have received on this basis.


Dominic,

I imagine it is difficult to be in the situation you are in. However, I do not believe you are forbidden from preaching if you don't meet all of these qualifications. Any brother is allowed to share a word from the Lord with the rest of the congregation. That is clearly not at all forbidden. If you are not yet qualified to be an elder/pastor, that does not exclude you from ministering the truth to the rest of the body. I would definitely pray about it and seek the Lord through the Scripture and through godly counsel, as will find here on sermonindex and locally with your fellowship. We all know how to find the people who will agree with us, but talk to those who will tell you the truth regardless of your own feelings.

 2016/3/21 9:24Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1414


 Re: Qualifications of a Pastor and being single, not married

Hi Deltadom,
Im going to jump in after not reading the other post apologies.
I was just talking to a friend who is a Pastor of my church on this issue the other day.
In context I think that Paul is not talking to or saying that we cannot have single leaders.He was only addressing the fact that some leaders had more than one wife and that God was curbing that anomoly,setting it straight sort to speak.
So thier is no problem with single Pastors.However their is a total problem with the position of gift of "Pastor" in the Church upto and including the present day Church.
This gift has to respectfully "go back in its box" and assume its correct position within the Church.
The problem arises on our unbiblical insistance that the leader of a Church has be a Pastor.The leader may have the gift of Pastor or may not.This insistance has and continues to cause the greatest disunity and division in the Church and needs to be addressed ASAP.Its not that we dont get on or that we dont want the best for fellow Church members,its not that kind of disunity.Its not "a lack of love disunity"
its a functional disunity where the gifts are not functioning in the correct order and way mainly caused if not totally by the incorrect position of Pastor,
So no you dont have to be married to be in leadership thats just rubbish but in the Church in the Past and Present you have to be a "Pastor" thats incorrect and unworkable,
Yours Staff

 2016/3/21 19:20Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1792
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

I have no problem with preaching the scripture says specifically a husband of one wife to be a bishop and a deacon

1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach

1 Timothy
8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus

Imagine if all the Pastors where not

1 Timothy 3
not greedy of filthy lucre

7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

How many pastors hold to sound doctrine any more or extort and convince gainsayers. Imagine if Pastors actually new enough to convince people away from false doctrine, most pastors do not know true doctrine well enough to actually convince or convict people of sin. We have preachers who are in a deluge of being relevant to the society by preaching a gospeless message. I know I have read the christian books and most of them deny fundamental doctrines.

1 Timothy 3
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

In the scriptures it says that it is a good thing to desire to be a bishop, I would state that it is not a good thing to wait for Gods timing not mine. If it is Gods will to make me not a preacher at all.

it is funny when you listen to preachers that say that only few have the calling from say mega churches that they want to control there flock rather than Jesus.

I would say there are so many areas in which as marriage and not driving and other areas in which would not make me suitable for a pastoral role.

1 Kings
Abishag Cares for David

1Now king David was old and stricken in years; and they covered him with clothes, but he gat no heat. 2Wherefore his servants said unto him, Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin: and let her stand before the king, and let her cherish him, and let her lie in thy bosom, that my lord the king may get heat. 3So they sought for a fair damsel throughout all the coasts of Israel, and found Abishag a Shunammite, and brought her to the king. 4And the damsel was very fair, and cherished the king, and ministered to him: but the king knew her not.

Adonijah Usurps the Kingdom

5Then Adonijah the son of Haggith exalted himself, saying, I will be king: and he prepared him chariots and horsemen, and fifty men to run before him. 6And his father had not displeased him at any time in saying, Why hast thou done so? and he also was a very goodly man; and his mother bare him after Absalom. 7And he conferred with Joab the son of Zeruiah, and with Abiathar the priest: and they following Adonijah helped him. 8But Zadok the priest, and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, and Nathan the prophet, and Shimei, and Rei, and the mighty men which belonged to David, were not with Adonijah.

9And Adonijah slew sheep and oxen and fat cattle by the stone of Zoheleth, which is by Enrogel, and called all his brethren the king's sons, and all the men of Judah the king's servants: 10But Nathan the prophet, and Benaiah, and the mighty men, and Solomon his brother, he called not.

Nathan and Bathsheba Before David

11Wherefore Nathan spake unto Bathsheba the mother of Solomon, saying, Hast thou not heard that Adonijah the son of Haggith doth reign, and David our lord knoweth it not? 12Now therefore come, let me, I pray thee, give thee counsel, that thou mayest save thine own life, and the life of thy son Solomon. 13Go and get thee in unto king David, and say unto him, Didst not thou, my lord, O king, swear unto thine handmaid, saying, Assuredly Solomon thy son shall reign after me, and he shall sit upon my throne? why then doth Adonijah reign? 14Behold, while thou yet talkest there with the king, I also will come in after thee, and confirm thy words.

15And Bathsheba went in unto the king into the chamber: and the king was very old; and Abishag the Shunammite ministered unto the king. 16And Bathsheba bowed, and did obeisance unto the king. And the king said, What wouldest thou? 17And she said unto him, My lord, thou swarest by the LORD thy God unto thine handmaid, saying, Assuredly Solomon thy son shall reign after me, and he shall sit upon my throne. 18And now, behold, Adonijah reigneth; and now, my lord the king, thou knowest it not: 19And he hath slain oxen and fat cattle and sheep in abundance, and hath called all the sons of the king, and Abiathar the priest, and Joab the captain of the host: but Solomon thy servant hath he not called. 20And thou, my lord, O king, the eyes of all Israel are upon thee, that thou shouldest tell them who shall sit on the throne of my lord the king after him. 21Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.

Adonijah was one who put himself forward rather than God putting himself forward he died quickly.

2 Samuel 15
King James Version (KJV)

15 And it came to pass after this, that Absalom prepared him chariots and horses, and fifty men to run before him.

2 And Absalom rose up early, and stood beside the way of the gate: and it was so, that when any man that had a controversy came to the king for judgment, then Absalom called unto him, and said, Of what city art thou? And he said, Thy servant is of one of the tribes of Israel.

3 And Absalom said unto him, See, thy matters are good and right; but there is no man deputed of the king to hear thee.

4 Absalom said moreover, Oh that I were made judge in the land, that every man which hath any suit or cause might come unto me, and I would do him justice!

5 And it was so, that when any man came nigh to him to do him obeisance, he put forth his hand, and took him, and kissed him.

6 And on this manner did Absalom to all Israel that came to the king for judgment: so Absalom stole the hearts of the men of Israel.

7 And it came to pass after forty years, that Absalom said unto the king, I pray thee, let me go and pay my vow, which I have vowed unto the Lord, in Hebron.

8 For thy servant vowed a vow while I abode at Geshur in Syria, saying, If the Lord shall bring me again indeed to Jerusalem, then I will serve the Lord.

9 And the king said unto him, Go in peace. So he arose, and went to Hebron.

10 But Absalom sent spies throughout all the tribes of Israel, saying, As soon as ye hear the sound of the trumpet, then ye shall say, Absalom reigneth in Hebron.

11 And with Absalom went two hundred men out of Jerusalem, that were called; and they went in their simplicity, and they knew not any thing.

12 And Absalom sent for Ahithophel the Gilonite, David's counsellor, from his city, even from Giloh, while he offered sacrifices. And the conspiracy was strong; for the people increased continually with Absalom.

13 And there came a messenger to David, saying, The hearts of the men of Israel are after Absalom.

14 And David said unto all his servants that were with him at Jerusalem, Arise, and let us flee; for we shall not else escape from Absalom: make speed to depart, lest he overtake us suddenly, and bring evil upon us, and smite the city with the edge of the sword.

15 And the king's servants said unto the king, Behold, thy servants are ready to do whatsoever my lord the king shall appoint.

16 And the king went forth, and all his household after him. And the king left ten women, which were concubines, to keep the house.

17 And the king went forth, and all the people after him, and tarried in a place that was far off.

18 And all his servants passed on beside him; and all the Cherethites, and all the Pelethites, and all the Gittites, six hundred men which came after him from Gath, passed on before the king.

19 Then said the king to Ittai the Gittite, Wherefore goest thou also with us? return to thy place, and abide with the king: for thou art a stranger, and also an exile.

20 Whereas thou camest but yesterday, should I this day make thee go up and down with us? seeing I go whither I may, return thou, and take back thy brethren: mercy and truth be with thee.

21 And Ittai answered the king, and said, As the Lord liveth, and as my lord the king liveth, surely in what place my lord the king shall be, whether in death or life, even there also will thy servant be.

22 And David said to Ittai, Go and pass over. And Ittai the Gittite passed over, and all his men, and all the little ones that were with him.

23 And all the country wept with a loud voice, and all the people passed over: the king also himself passed over the brook Kidron, and all the people passed over, toward the way of the wilderness.

24 And lo Zadok also, and all the Levites were with him, bearing the ark of the covenant of God: and they set down the ark of God; and Abiathar went up, until all the people had done passing out of the city.

25 And the king said unto Zadok, Carry back the ark of God into the city: if I shall find favour in the eyes of the Lord, he will bring me again, and shew me both it, and his habitation:

26 But if he thus say, I have no delight in thee; behold, here am I, let him do to me as seemeth good unto him.

27 The king said also unto Zadok the priest, Art not thou a seer? return into the city in peace, and your two sons with you, Ahimaaz thy son, and Jonathan the son of Abiathar.

28 See, I will tarry in the plain of the wilderness, until there come word from you to certify me.

29 Zadok therefore and Abiathar carried the ark of God again to Jerusalem: and they tarried there.

30 And David went up by the ascent of mount Olivet, and wept as he went up, and had his head covered, and he went barefoot: and all the people that was with him covered every man his head, and they went up, weeping as they went up.

31 And one told David, saying, Ahithophel is among the conspirators with Absalom. And David said, O Lord, I pray thee, turn the counsel of Ahithophel into foolishness.

32 And it came to pass, that when David was come to the top of the mount, where he worshipped God, behold, Hushai the Archite came to meet him with his coat rent, and earth upon his head:

33 Unto whom David said, If thou passest on with me, then thou shalt be a burden unto me:

34 But if thou return to the city, and say unto Absalom, I will be thy servant, O king; as I have been thy father's servant hitherto, so will I now also be thy servant: then mayest thou for me defeat the counsel of Ahithophel.

35 And hast thou not there with thee Zadok and Abiathar the priests? therefore it shall be, that what thing soever thou shalt hear out of the king's house, thou shalt tell it to Zadok and Abiathar the priests.

36 Behold, they have there with them their two sons, Ahimaaz Zadok's son, and Jonathan Abiathar's son; and by them ye shall send unto me every thing that ye can hear.

37 So Hushai David's friend came into the city, and Absalom came into Jerusalem


2 Samuel 18King James Version (KJV)

18 And David numbered the people that were with him, and set captains of thousands, and captains of hundreds over them.

2 And David sent forth a third part of the people under the hand of Joab, and a third part under the hand of Abishai the son of Zeruiah, Joab's brother, and a third part under the hand of Ittai the Gittite. And the king said unto the people, I will surely go forth with you myself also.

3 But the people answered, Thou shalt not go forth: for if we flee away, they will not care for us; neither if half of us die, will they care for us: but now thou art worth ten thousand of us: therefore now it is better that thou succour us out of the city.

4 And the king said unto them, What seemeth you best I will do. And the king stood by the gate side, and all the people came out by hundreds and by thousands.

5 And the king commanded Joab and Abishai and Ittai, saying, Deal gently for my sake with the young man, even with Absalom. And all the people heard when the king gave all the captains charge concerning Absalom.

6 So the people went out into the field against Israel: and the battle was in the wood of Ephraim;

7 Where the people of Israel were slain before the servants of David, and there was there a great slaughter that day of twenty thousand men.

8 For the battle was there scattered over the face of all the country: and the wood devoured more people that day than the sword devoured.

9 And Absalom met the servants of David. And Absalom rode upon a mule, and the mule went under the thick boughs of a great oak, and his head caught hold of the oak, and he was taken up between the heaven and the earth; and the mule that was under him went away.

10 And a certain man saw it, and told Joab, and said, Behold, I saw Absalom hanged in an oak.

11 And Joab said unto the man that told him, And, behold, thou sawest him, and why didst thou not smite him there to the ground? and I would have given thee ten shekels of silver, and a girdle.

12 And the man said unto Joab, Though I should receive a thousand shekels of silver in mine hand, yet would I not put forth mine hand against the king's son: for in our hearing the king charged thee and Abishai and Ittai, saying, Beware that none touch the young man Absalom.

13 Otherwise I should have wrought falsehood against mine own life: for there is no matter hid from the king, and thou thyself wouldest have set thyself against me.

14 Then said Joab, I may not tarry thus with thee. And he took three darts in his hand, and thrust them through the heart of Absalom, while he was yet alive in the midst of the oak.

15 And ten young men that bare Joab's armour compassed about and smote Absalom, and slew him.

16 And Joab blew the trumpet, and the people returned from pursuing after Israel: for Joab held back the people.

17 And they took Absalom, and cast him into a great pit in the wood, and laid a very great heap of stones upon him: and all Israel fled every one to his tent.

18 Now Absalom in his lifetime had taken and reared up for himself a pillar, which is in the king's dale: for he said, I have no son to keep my name in remembrance: and he called the pillar after his own name: and it is called unto this day, Absalom's place.

19 Then said Ahimaaz the son of Zadok, Let me now run, and bear the king tidings, how that the Lord hath avenged him of his enemies.

20 And Joab said unto him, Thou shalt not bear tidings this day, but thou shalt bear tidings another day: but this day thou shalt bear no tidings, because the king's son is dead.

21 Then said Joab to Cushi, Go tell the king what thou hast seen. And Cushi bowed himself unto Joab, and ran.

22 Then said Ahimaaz the son of Zadok yet again to Joab, But howsoever, let me, I pray thee, also run after Cushi. And Joab said, Wherefore wilt thou run, my son, seeing that thou hast no tidings ready?

23 But howsoever, said he, let me run. And he said unto him, Run. Then Ahimaaz ran by the way of the plain, and overran Cushi.

24 And David sat between the two gates: and the watchman went up to the roof over the gate unto the wall, and lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold a man running alone.

25 And the watchman cried, and told the king. And the king said, If he be alone, there is tidings in his mouth. And he came apace, and drew near.

26 And the watchman saw another man running: and the watchman called unto the porter, and said, Behold another man running alone. And the king said, He also bringeth tidings.

27 And the watchman said, Me thinketh the running of the foremost is like the running of Ahimaaz the son of Zadok. And the king said, He is a good man, and cometh with good tidings.

28 And Ahimaaz called, and said unto the king, All is well. And he fell down to the earth upon his face before the king, and said, Blessed be the Lord thy God, which hath delivered up the men that lifted up their hand against my lord the king.

29 And the king said, Is the young man Absalom safe? And Ahimaaz answered, When Joab sent the king's servant, and me thy servant, I saw a great tumult, but I knew not what it was.

30 And the king said unto him, Turn aside, and stand here. And he turned aside, and stood still.

31 And, behold, Cushi came; and Cushi said, Tidings, my lord the king: for the Lord hath avenged thee this day of all them that rose up against thee.

32 And the king said unto Cushi, Is the young man Absalom safe? And Cushi answered, The enemies of my lord the king, and all that rise against thee to do thee hurt, be as that young man is.

33 And the king was much moved, and went up to the chamber over the gate, and wept: and as he went, thus he said, O my son Absalom, my son, my son Absalom! would God I had died for thee, O Absalom, my son, my son!

2 Samuel from 15 to 17 details the life of Absalom, Absalom tried to use his own means to become king his life ended in Death.

NET Bible
Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers and sisters, because you know that we will be judged more strictly.

The bible says that there is a stricter judgement for those that are teaching God help this country as judgement begins at the house of God

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Is it not in the Lords will, If God wants me in the ministry he can get me married and he can help me to learn to drive and all the necessary things that I need

2 Peter 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:


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Dominic Shiells

 2016/3/22 15:31Profile





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