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roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Does salvation have to be a one-time event?

In the parable of the Seed and the Sower, the Word falls on various types of soil ex rocky, shallow, thorny, good soil. But only the seed that fell on good soil produced a crop (true salvation).

Doesn't it take a while for the roots to grow and be established well enough to produce new life? Wouldn't it take TIME for salvation to be truely established - if it is for real?

The seed that falls on rocky soil can produce a growth right away - looking like instant salvation, but then it dies in drought conditions. (I don't think that means that the person LOST his salvation - it was never there)

We know from many scriptural references that only those who endure (seed was rooted) are saved. Doesn't that take TIME - that is, if it turns out to be REAL new life in Christ?

I've heard plenty about the sanctifying process - which happens after the salvation "event". But I'm still not sure if salvation has to occur at a set time.

Since salvation comes from God, shouldn't HE be the one who reveals it to us? Can it take time for us to come into the awareness of our salvation?

I sound a bit confused because so much of what I've learned in the past now seems to simplistic and formula-ridden, and at times, out of touch with what is really happening in the hearts of the people.
I don't find Jesus giving any specific formulas for salvation. He used different words everytime.


_________________
Diane

 2005/5/18 14:26Profile









 Re: Does salvation have to be a one-time event?

You are quite right,

"He that endures to the end the same shall be saved"

That endurence speaks of multiple salvations.

"Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the LORD delivereth him out of them all."

Salvation is not a one time event, we must continue on lest those things we have heard slip.

Warmly
Karl

 2005/5/18 14:53
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: salvation

Just from my own personal experience and seeing that of some of the past saints- it does seem to be a journey. "Pilgrims Progress" comes to mind.

Of course I didn't even know what Pilgrim's Progress was until a few years ago. Sadly modern christians are missing out on a rich history of christian writings from the past.

This is not to say that I walk in unassurance. I can have confidence that now that i have surrendered fully to the Lord that He will keep me to Himself. But I still consider this verse "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling".

I think Chip Brogden explains this well in "Bring them to Christ":

"When we hear the phrase, "bring people to Christ" we are apt to think in terms of tent revivals, evangelistic meetings, and missionary campaigns. I'd like to expand your horizons a bit and get you to see that the whole aim and purpose of God is to bring us to Christ - not once, but continually, daily, hour by hour, minute by minute. Just as a wildly spinning compass eventually points to true north, so the Holy Spirit is arranging our lives and ordering our steps so that we are constantly being brought back to our "true north", centered and focused on and into CHRIST, forever being made to see our sufficiency is of Him, that He is the Author and the Finisher of our faith, that we are complete in Him, and seated with Him in the heavenly places. As believers, we ought always to encourage and exhort one another, bringing the saint and the sinner alike BACK TO CHRIST (either for the first time or for the one thousandth time), back to their Source, back to their Life. "

in His love, Chanin


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Chanin

 2005/5/18 15:26Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Instant salvation - a cultural mindset?

Quote:
the whole aim and purpose of God is to bring us to Christ - not once, but continually, daily, hour by hour, minute by minute.


I think that these words from Chip help bring us back to God's "plumb line"

In our culture - we have become accustomed to instant coffee, instant fixes, instant makeovers, instant changes, instant arrivals. So we infect our understanding of God's truths with our cultural mindset. If someone isn't an instant "Christian (looking)" they can't be "in" with God - ie saved.

Also, we assume that someone has instant salvation just by "walking to the altar" And that is regarded as an instant permanent "insurance" policy for heaven - regardless of where that person goes after that. (Needing insurance for everything is also have cultural mindset)

I have come to believe God's Spirit works not only in specific situations, but also over a lifetime to draw people into a relationship with him. Who are we to pronounce the final judgment on anyone before the work is done. Let God separate the wheat and the tares when he chooses.
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2005/5/19 9:28Profile









 Re:

In understanding God's attitude to salvation, I found it very helpful to read through the New Testament in Young's translation, because he retains the spirit of the Greek tenses more accurately. I have lifted the verses (below) from a search of his text. In the same way as God 'was' and 'is' and 'is to come', so also, we can find scripture to support all three main tenses (past present future) with respect to salvation - saved, being saved, will be saved.

I see this as tying in with God being I AM, Whom we meet through the eternal (now) Spirit as we receive Him, pray in Him, live in Him and walk in Him. Does this sound trite? I hope not! For me, it knocks the stuffing out of whispers that one has failed (past tense) as if that's it - it's all over now - there is no tuning back in ... [b]NO!...[/b] I never tuned out! (spiritually) I may have taken my eye off the ball but I didn't walk off the pitch.

This 'time' feature of our thinking is the best we can do in the created world, but through the Spirit, we touch the Uncreated continuously, if we will receive this truth. Of references to being filled with the Spirit, the natural man may add the deduction that therefore I (or he, or they) were not filled with the Spirit previously, but, this fundamentally denies the principle by which we are (being) saved. We are being filled with the Spirit and truly, sometimes we feel a great surge of the Spirit, as we need His help.

Personally, I found the image of Jesus in the temple - [i]with the moneychangers, their tables, their sacrifices for sale, their heart to cheat the sinner, their legalism etc[/i] - [b][i]driving[/i][/b] them out, a good way to describe my experience. Yes, it is confusing as He moves through the temple in which He now dwells, putting things right, challenging us to make ours a house of prayer; but we bless Him that He comes and is not willing to leave us in the state He found us. We rejoice to have received His glorious company into our humble abode. If it was not a humble abode previously, we are relieved to give up the 'show' which accompanied our previous religiosity, as He brings realism to our thinking and understanding. And yes, it takes 'time'. He [i]gives[/i] us 'time' to [i]savour[/i] Him, His work, our relationship, to rest in His love.

Acts 2:47
praising God, and having favour with all the people, and the Lord was adding those [b]being saved[/b] every day to the assembly.

1 Cor 1:18
for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us--those [b]being saved[/b]--it is the power of God,

1 Cor 15:2
through which also ye are [b]being saved[/b], in what words I proclaimed good news to you, if ye hold fast, except ye did believe in vain,

2 Cor 2:15
because of Christ a sweet fragrance we are to God, in those [b]being saved[/b], and in those being lost;

2 Thess 2:10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their [b]being saved[/b],


 2005/5/19 10:31
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re: Does salvation have to be a one-time event?

Sister Diane wrote:

Quote:
Since salvation comes from God, shouldn't HE be the one who reveals it to us? Can it take time for us to come into the awareness of our salvation?



I see God coming many times to those who are given as examples so that we might learn of God's ways. The lives of Abraham, Jacob, and Joseph are filled with examples of God speaking and leading them unto salvation. He[b]reveals[/b] Himself to each of these men who lived by faith.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/5/19 12:32Profile









 Re: AAAAaaaaaaaacccccccccckkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many times were you born in the natural? And who ever said that the parable of the sower necessarily meant salvation?
Jesus died once, for all. The moment someone places their hope for eternal life in Jesus Christ and repents of their sins, they are as saved as they will ever be, unless they abandon their faith and place thier hope in religion or some other diety besides Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
Working out your salvation is the sanctification process, not the justification process. If you have to work out your salvation, then what Jesus did on the cross is not enough. This is religious and hellish, in my humble opinion.
I would venture to guess that 90% of the church world today are confused between justificaiton & sanctification. I've heard preachers stand in the pulpit and tell someone that if they did something sinful and did not repent, they were going to hell! The bible does not teach that following the flesh and not walking after the Spirit will destroy your justification. If you can destroy the shed blood of Jesus, then you can destroy your justification. I dont' believe in eternal security. I do believe that I am eternally secure in Christ Jesus. I have been reconciled to God by His shed blood, and only by His shed blood. I cannot possibly be perfect, even as a zealous believer. Paul couldn't. That's why God had to tell him that His grace was sufficient. If grace is not sufficient, then God is a liar and grace is a worthless term.
Those who are born again have passed from judgement into life. Paul said that if we have been crucified with Christ, we shall also reign with Him. This crucifixion is by faith, and occurs one time at the time we believe and submit ourselves unto Christ in repentance, as a soldier does when he/she enlists. That does not make the soldier perfect. But he/she is a soldier non-the-less.
One simply cannot be born again and again and again. It's a one time deal. I don't care if someone gets in the flesh and flounders in it, as long as their hope is in Christ Jesus, I dont' think they are condemned. Furthermore, I dont' think the Holy Spirit ever gives up in attempting to get them back on track. I think if they repent and come home, they can be forgiven and begin earning reward in heaven once again following after the Holy Spirit.
Nobody has a license to sin. God forbid. But Paul said that all things were permitted. He also said that not all things were profitable. If we do not obey God, then it is unprofitable to us. In other words, we come under the correcting hand of God. He will correct.
Paul also turned some over to satan for the destruction of the flesh, that their souls may be saved. I wonder what these were involved in? What did satan do to them to destroy their flesh. Were their souls still saved, even though they were operating in the flesh?

What happens when a person knows to do good and then does not do it? Do they lose their salvation and have to be reborn again? I could go on and on. But saints, I'm placing all my hope not on works of my flesh, but on the finished work of Jesus. I cannot make myself rigtheous, no matter how hard I try. God will let me flounder until I reach out and take the imputed righteousness of Jesus as my own. Then God no longer sees me, He only sees Jesus. My faith is in Christ. I am in Christ. Thank God I am. Alleluia.
This born again and again and again is a religious merry go round that plagues christianity. It's time to put it away and get right with Christ Jesus. Take His righteousness. It's the only one that holds up in God's court. Furthermore, I have an advocate with the Father Who pleads my case and makes intercession for me. Thanks be to God. Thank You Jesus.

 2005/5/19 21:08









 Re: Does salvation have to be a one-time event? re Lahry (Aaaccckkk)

Quote:
If you have to work out your salvation, then what Jesus did on the cross is not enough.



Philippians 2:12
So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out, 13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

These two verses follow the ones which talk about every knee bowing and confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord. How can you have a problem with them, Bro Lahry?

 2005/5/19 21:31









 Re: dorcas

I dont' have a problem with the verses. Working out your salvation is not religious works for justification but for sanctification.

When a child is born, they are as born as they are ever going to be. It's no different in the kingdom of God. Either all our sins are covered by faith in the Blood of Jesus or they are not. I'll stand on the side of covered. If I miss it, well, my works would have never saved me anyway.

 2005/5/20 7:25
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Br Lahry wrote:

Quote:
The moment someone places their hope for eternal life in Jesus Christ and repents of their sins, they are as saved as they will ever be, unless they abandon their faith and place thier hope in religion or some other diety besides Jesus Christ and Him crucified



I agree with this statement. This is what Paul taught.

Rom. 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have ACCESS BY FAITH into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

When one receives the gift of justification, the door is opened to Christ [b]through[/b] faith into all grace. And this grace is most sufficient to save anyone in this world from [b]spiritual death.[/b]

Paul goes on to teach that we are justified by His death, and we [b]are saved by His life.[/b]

Romans 5

10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

And then Paul warns in many places that access into this grace is through obeying the Spirit. If one continues to disobey the Spirit then that people due to unbelief and disobedience [b]dies spiritually.[/b]

Rom. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Abraham, Jacob, and Joseph are given to us as examples of how God comes and directs their lives. Their lives are given to us to show the provision of God's grace and how it changes those who believe and obey God's voice.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/5/20 12:21Profile





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