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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Jesus Son of God or Son of man or both? But not God. . .

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Croref
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Joined: 2008/3/18
Posts: 334


 Jesus Son of God or Son of man or both? But not God. . .

. . . . short of glorification and while upon Earth Jesus never claimed to be God yet claimed he was equal to God. per John 17. I see Him as God's representation of God's normal man. I believe Chambers sees Him as God's representation of what God intended man to be from the beginning. How do you see Him with a reason why?

This question I ask is with a hope we can see to be enriched by the Holy Spirit per John 17 :3 and 21-22.

 2016/2/20 14:37Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2717
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Jesus Son of God or Son of man or both? But not God. . .

Quote:
I believe Chambers sees Him as God's representation of what God intended man to be from the beginning. How do you see Him with a reason why?



He certainly is what God intended man to be, that Pattern and Example; He came to fulfill the true ideal of faith, He didn't just teach it, He lived it and He learned obedience by the things He suffered and so being perfected He became the author of eternal salvation.

As the Author of our salvation He has made a way for us to be holy by possessing the Holy One. Mere imitation of Christ as an Example is not what the New Testament is about. He is our holiness because He Himself dwells in us. So, we cannot dwell only on the human side of Christ's life as exhibiting God's ideal for man. We cannot lose sight of His essential deity and the absolute need of that deity in our sanctification.

To quote Evan Hopkins, "A man could not live in another man. A man can leave us his memory, his example, his teaching; but he cannot live again in us. If Jesus is only a holy man, complete and normal Christian sanctification is necessarily reduced to the sincere effort to follow and emulate Him; and the Church would be nothing more than an association of well-disposed people, united together for the purpose of doing good, while studying their pattern, Jesus Christ. This is the level to which the most elevated and the most glorious ideas of the gospel will immediately descend, when once the crown of deity has been snatched from the head of Christ."

In Christ,


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Ron Halverson

 2016/2/20 15:40Profile
jimmyhudson
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Joined: 2009/12/2
Posts: 41
England

 Re: Jesus Son of God or Son of man or both? But not God. . .

I believe the titles, Son of God and Son of man, can certainly be attributed to Jesus, but ultimately I believe JESUS WAS GOD. In Jesus Christ, God was manifest in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16) He was Emmanuel, God with us! And I believe that the Jews of Jesus time knew exactly who he was claiming to be, when we read, for example in John 10, they wanted to stone Him for blasphemy. Why? because he was making Himself to be God.

 2016/2/20 17:03Profile









 Re:

1Cor_6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Who is the Lord? Can we be joined to a man's spirit. Can a man's spirit live in us?

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

This verse equates the "Spirit of God" with the "Spirit of Christ", therefore Christ is God and as the brother put it so well, a man's spirit cannot live in another man. We are joined to the Spirit of Christ (God).

 2016/2/20 17:06
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1861


 Re:

John 8'58. Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
..Jesus here makes the highest claim he could make about him being God ,when he referenced the old text of ..............Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
The Jewish people new exactly what he was claiming to be ,, in the same gospel this was written ..................John 10:30-33, What made the Jews want to kill Jesus?
"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God," (John 10:30-33).

 2016/2/20 18:41Profile
Elibeth
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Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 941


 Re: Jesus Son of God or Son of man or both? But not God. . .

Dear Croref,

Jesus is 'The Son of God'..
and I ask this question with all due respect,..I do not want to offend,but feel it
need to be said,..so please bear with me.

How can we say what The Word and Jesus Himself did not say?
That Jesus is God ? (I know that many say this)

The Holy Spirit,..Who is God,..( God is invisable),...Who is The Word /Spirit.
That Holy Spirit /Word entered into Mary's womb,and Jesus'Father is The Spirit /Word(God)....We know,that He did not have an earthly,blood father.He was son of man,because He was born of an earthly Mother.Making Him both,..son of man,and Son of God.

* a little note here,..When we recieve The Holy Spirit,..It is The Spirit and The Word together That we recieve,...that Word Spirit is like,the Bible says 'a fountain of LIVING WATER,springing up unto >>>>>>...He offers us Life.

When Jesus spoke,He only spoke out the Fathers Word.That was His WHOLE mission.

Unlike us,We have an earthly father,but when we recieve the Holy Spirit,we too,have a heavenly Father,...The Word/Spirit.

In His Love,
elizabeth

 2016/2/21 20:57Profile
jochbaptist
Member



Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 277


 Re: John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Does not get any clearer than that ...


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J Kruger

 2016/2/22 4:30Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3683
Ca.

 Re:

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Who is God?

In Christ me my life, being born again of His Spirit, who is God and the only one who can give life is God. The Holy
Spirit of whom God the Son has sent by the prayer to the Father That He Send the HOLY SPIRIT to teach us of this Jesus whom is born again in us, The Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself but of Christ who is our new life in, of, by and fore, Christ in you the hope of Glory of whose life I now live in the flesh by His Spirit, which I live by the Faith of the Son of God.
Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

The only begotten Son of God must be God also. Not made with hands but ordained to be God, and was God even before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. In Him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Is Jesus Christ God? Absolutely, without, without question, by the Holy Spirit screaming inside those who believe, Jesus Christ Is God.

By Him in me: Phillip a new creature.


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Phillip

 2016/2/22 15:53Profile
Elibeth
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Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 941


 Re: Jesus Son of God or Son of man or both? But not God. . .

Croref,you also asked,"How do you see Him, ( Jesus )and why ?"

In the begining,God,Who is The Spirit Word,spoke The Word (Who is The I AM)
and brought EVERYTHING,by His Spirit voice Word,into being.

He said,"Let us,...(The Spirit/Word) make man in our own image."
So,What is "the image of God",....It is everything that is seen in God,who is The Spirit Word....Love,...compassion,Righteousness,...and on and on,everything that He is,.. He wants manifested (made real) in us,Through the workings of the Holy Spirit,in us...The same powerful Spirit,that raised Christ from the dead,...Christ in us,the hope of glory.

Christ:A title for Jesus,.. Messiah...Deliverer,...who is in us,by the Holy Spirit.

As we all know,The first man,Adam failed in this,but When Jesus ,God' Son came,Born of His Father,God'Spirit Word,He was TRULY,The image that God,His Father,spoke about in the begining.(He did not fail,..What came forth from Him,was The true image of God.

So,Jesus was One with The Father.He wants us to be one with He and The Father.
So what makes us one,...The Spirit Word,came to do the work.
Jesus said,"The Father worketh hitherto,and I work." Jn.5:17

That ishow I see Him,and soooo very much more.

Thank you for asking such a GREAT question Croref.

Blessings,

elizabeth

 2016/2/22 23:04Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3683
Ca.

 Re:

John 10:28-30 And I <kago> give <didomi> unto them <autos> eternal <aionios> life <zoe>; and <kai> they shall <apollumi> never <ou me> <eis> <aion> perish <apollumi>, neither <kai> <ou> shall <harpazo> any <tis> man pluck <harpazo> them <autos> out of <ek> my <mou> hand <cheir>. My <mou> Father <pater>, which <hos> gave <didomi> them me <moi>, is <esti> greater than <meizon> all <pas>; and <kai> no <oudeis> man is able <dunamai> to pluck <harpazo> them out of <ek> my <mou> Father's <pater> hand <cheir>. I <ego> and <kai> my Father <pater> are <esmen> one <heis>.

Is Jesus the same as God The Father, only He, Jesus is the Son, "I and my Father are One".

John 10:36-38 Say <lego> ye <humeis> of him, whom <hos> the Father <pater> hath sanctified <hagiazo>, and <kai> sent <apostello> into <eis> the world <kosmos>, <hoti> Thou blasphemest <blasphemeo>; because <hoti> I said <epo>, I am <eimi> the Son <huios> of God <theos>? If <ei> I do <poieo> not <ou> the works <ergon> of my <mou> Father <pater>, believe <pisteuo> me <moi> not <me>. But <de> if <ei> I do <poieo>, though <kan> ye believe <pisteuo> not <me> me <emoi>, believe <pisteuo> the works <ergon>: that <hina> ye may know <ginosko>, and <kai> believe <pisteuo>, that <hoti> the Father <pater> is in <en> me <emoi>, and I <kago> in <en> him <autos>.

The Father sanctified and sent the perfect sinless image of Himself who must be God also or the sending would be worthless, He the Father is in Him; Jesus and Jesus is in the Father. Also; Jesus is in me giving me the same grace as He gives to all the Born Again, new created, not of this world, but of God the Son who is from the Father above.

Jesus Christ who is truly God the Son, the express image of God the Father and the same power as the Holy Spirit, who teaches us this truth; The full expression of who the God of all creation and all that is in, who He, the One God of three expressions for you and me that are His, son' of God by the Son Himself birthed of the Father in us.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2016/2/24 16:42Profile





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