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dfella
Member



Joined: 2010/7/9
Posts: 295
Canton, Michigan

 Re:

Brothers,

Great post and great topic of which I fully agree. I will say the list needs added to and include, Hinn, Copeland, Hagin, Dollar, DuPlantis....

One thing I can say about the Holy Spirit is that He will lead and guide us into all truth. Looking back I can testify the Holy Spirit never failing to warn or protect me from going down the wrong path. Even before receiving the HS after committing my life to Christ 9 years earlier I can look back and see how He protected me from following any one of the men named in this thread.

At the time I did not understand it but when I look back I can say that God is faithful, period.

The problem with those who are deceived, is not Gods fault, or the Holy Spirits fault ALL of the fault lies WITHIN the flesh of men, period. Men choosing to be led astray because they give into the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and their own pride, period.

While I am not afraid to call sin, sin, or to name the names of heretics, false teachers, and blasphemers I can say that I truly DO tremble before the Lord and am careful to inspect my own heart first.

One thing that concerns me just as much as the false manifestations within these various movements are those who overstep their bounds and end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

While some ministers like John MacArthur is right in saying what these false shepherds are doing is wrong, sinful, and demonic, he also throws out the true with the false.

Todd mentioned he has never been in a service where those who were out of order were never called out or removed by the leadership. However, I have only been in fellowships where that very thing has happened on numerous occasions.

One of the churches I have attended for 5 years straight beginning in 2004 and then periodically since 2009 does that very thing.

The pastor will absolutely not tolerate disorder, manifestations in the flesh, and has stopped people mid sentence or disorder when he discerned it was not the Holy Spirit.

This is the only church that I am aware of in my state where the Holy Spirit moves every week through the prophetic, exhortation, spiritual songs, Psalms, Hymns, words of wisdom, words of knowledge. Nothing fancy, nothing fleshly, but decently and in order.

One thing that happens every time I attend and have heard from numerous other members is that whatever has happened in ones week prior to attending a service is that whatever God is ministering to them about it is confirmed in the church service.

For example, if I have something I might be studying, praying about, burdened with, or conversing with others about, when I get to church, it is confirmed through the songs that are sung, the gifts of the Spirit, and the preaching.

It is truly like having your mail read every week without fail. When I first started to attend this church, my own mother whom I had been ministering to for years that she needed saved started coming with me to this church.

My mother, an Italian immigrant, was raised in the Catholic church. I got saved in 1988, filled in 1997, and began to attend this church in 2004. For reasons to lengthy to mention as to why my mother began to attend this church with me, I will just say, she was a wonderful loving mother, and like most mothers, she was one of a kind and I was her baby boy and she felt she needed to be with me while I was transitioning from one church to another.

Anyway, it took about 45 minutes to get to church every Sunday, While driving we would discuss spiritual things and at this point my mother was full of questions that I would answer from the scriptures.

Now no one knew what we were discussing in that car on the way to church but me, her, The Lord, and the devil. When we got to church and the gifts began to flow, words were coming forth on the very topic we were discussing.

Once the Pastor got in the pulpit the very details including the scripture references I gave my mother were brought forth. It was an undeniable confirmation my own mother could not deny.

This happened EVERY week. Attending this church led to my mothers salvation. There was no major miracles or manifestations of healing, deliverances, etc.. Just steady manifestations of the Holy Spirits presence and the confirming of the Word through song, preaching, and word gifts.

My brother in law who is Spirit filled who has only been attending this church since the Spring of 2015 on occasion has been going regularly for the past few months.

He also confessed to me that things he is studying and praying and meditating on are brought up in the church service and has been happening regularly.

Now this church, just like me and many other anointed men of God believe there is a much greater move of God coming however, we are not focused on such moves, we are focused on God.

Many men who started out right were led astray, just like the one prophetic warning someone posted here from the early 1900's, very good btw. I do not know the whats, whys, wheres, and whens in Gods calendar but I know when God does move we are going to see a tremendous flood of souls coming into the Kingdom but an even greater flood of those who are deceived swept away.

I appreciate everyone's input on this and I am so thankful when we can agree and speak the same thing.

Sister Frannie, while I disagree with the statement that you made that there is no love and no mercy here on this topic. I hope you would pray, meditate, and ponder what is being said by the brothers.

I get into many conversations and discussions with people who believe that a Christian can NEVER judge, discern, or call a spade a spade. The truth is and which has been said several times, that is just not biblical truth.

Our motives in judging and naming names, number one should be that we ourselves are not guilty of the very things were are judging or condemning.

Secondly, our motive in doing so should be love, mercy, and compassion, not to condemn or leave one outside the realm of hope, forgiveness, and Gods love. If one is unwilling to repent all the love, mercy, and compassion will avail nothing.

John 3:16 is one verse that is so widely misinterpreted today. While Gods love is fully sufficient to save every human being ever born, MOST are not WILLING to receive that love.

The only ones this verse says will not perish are only those who choose to believe, it says nothing about those who choose not to believe. And if one TRULY believes, he will repent, obey Gods word, and depart from evil.

To give anyone any hope of salvation or Gods love when they are unwilling to repent, obey, and depart from sin is not love at all. They are in need of the fear of the Lord not sweet talk. I have known for some time now that when we cast pearls before swine, the unrepentant and proud will turn and rend you with those words.

Telling an individual that God loves them before they realize why, and that their sins have separated them from God only serves to harden them the more. They say, How dare we tell them that sinners will not inherit heaven? God loves everyone!

Psalms 5:5-6 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. (6) Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

In the body of Christ we have peacekeepers and peacemakers. A peacekeeper only seeks to keep peace with everyone irregardless of their lifestyle and choices. A peacemaker will speak the truth to his brother and point out sin and error in his life so that that lost/deceived brother might make peace with God.

James 3:13-18 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. (14) But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. (15) This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. (16) For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. (17) But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. (18) And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

As for trembling before the Lord, the bible has much to say in us working out our own salvation in fear and trembling.


_________________
David Fella

 2016/1/24 15:01Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Thanks for sharing that David. Sounds like you are part of an awesome fellowship.

Keep pressing in brother. It's war.


_________________
Todd

 2016/1/24 17:03Profile
EAGLEFLYING
Member



Joined: 2012/9/25
Posts: 886


 Re: This post.

""Sister Frannie, while I disagree with the statement that you made that there is no love and no mercy here on this topic. I hope you would pray, meditate, and ponder what is being said by the brothers. I have.. I take the meat and spit out the bones and check my bible for all things..

I get into many conversations and discussions with people who believe that a Christian can NEVER judge, discern, or call a spade a spade. The truth is and which has been said several times, that is just not biblical truth.
Im not saying that.. Im saying there are people on this list who are moving on the Mercy side..
Like Rick Joyner.. If someone is divorced and they repent.. WIll they not be allowed to come to church and be used by GOD.. Not what my bible says.

The Message of the Cross is about MERCY.. is what I have learned in my walk with JESUS.. there were three men that night JESUS TOOK OUR PLACE..
The man on the left did not WANT JESUS or His love and Mercy.
JESUS took all of our places,, He knew knows we will mess us.. BUT HIS ARMS ARE WIDE OPEN EVEN NOW..
The man on the Right.. missed the mark as we all have..
HE REPENTED.. JESUS had Mercy on Him and HE forgave HIM.. and said He would remember Him in paradise..

""Our motives in judging and naming names, number one should be that we ourselves are not guilty of the very things were are judging or condemning.

Secondly, our motive in doing so should be love, mercy, and compassion, not to condemn or leave one outside the realm of hope, forgiveness, and Gods love. If one is unwilling to repent all the love, mercy, and compassion will avail nothing'"" I agree..

Brothers and sisters.. I am a serious believer.. I am saying that yes I agree we need to test the spirits..
I choose to take the meat and spit out the bones.. As for the manifestations like dogs ect.. I do not agree THEY ARE OF GOD I am not a babe in CHRIST..

Everything must be done decently and in order.. and confirmation to your spirit... like this brother Dave said..

There must be confirmation..
Paul said we prophesy in part... . in part....
1 cor. 12, 13, 14..
We need to be in LOVE...
IN THE LAST DAYS THE LOVE OF MANY will wax cold.. I cor 13 is in the middle of the explanation of the gifts.
THE GREATEST GIFT IS LOVE........

So.. in agreement and disagreement in some areas.. GOD SEES ALL THE HEARTS. and I love the old writers also and have grown with them still do..
Tozer said: Trials are the necessities of our growth..
ALL THINGS MUST BE DONE IN LOVE IS MY HEART HERE..
I will continue to take the meat and spit out the bones.
for when I get to church its not perfect because IM NOT perfect but being perfected and changed daily by HIS presence and Love and MERCY.. Without His Mercy we would all be consumed.

God Bless u all Brothers and sisters.
In Him
Frannie/Eagleflying


_________________
Frannie

 2016/1/24 19:42Profile









 Re:

Yes, thank you,, David, what a joy to read of your fellowship and the words of gentle wisdom.

 2016/1/24 19:54
dfella
Member



Joined: 2010/7/9
Posts: 295
Canton, Michigan

 Re:

Thank you Todd, Frannie, and Leslie. Frannie, thanks for elaborating also and helping me to understand better your convictions and premise.

I agree 100% in that 1 Corinthians 12 & 14 hinge upon chapter 13. I have greatly missed the mark with chapter 13 when I received the Holy Spirit and gained so much knowledge.

For a time I had become spiritually prideful and was beating people over the head with the truth which led to the breakdown in my marriage and my wife eventually divorcing me.

All I can say is, BUT GOD.....

God is faithful, willing, and able and in the very mercy you speak of He helped me see where I made a mess of things. The truth was still the truth I just wasn't delivering it in love.

So let me say, I also put a great emphasis on love. As I pondered Pauls words regarding faith, hope, and love I spent many many nights thinking on this chapter and why love is the greatest of the three.

Love is the only one of the three we will be taking with us into the Kingdom of God. It is eternal!

When we finally come into the presence of the Almighty, we will no longer need faith and hope because when we see Him we shall be like Him and know all things.

God is Love..

When I was able to grasp this truth and loved my wife, she returned and we remarried 9 years ago this past September.

When it comes to truths in Gods word like love I pray daily for God to help me maintain a balance and order in what I say, and how I say it. God has made us stewards not only over earthly possessions but stewards of His Word, truth, relationships...

I do quake and tremble should I fall short and cause any of the little ones to stumble.

Like you said Frannie, I take the meat and spit out the bones and sometimes I even circle back and find that the bones may have a little flavor after all.

I confess I am still a work in progress..

Blessings, Everyone!


_________________
David Fella

 2016/1/24 22:23Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 5185
Louisiana

 Re:


"One thing that concerns me just as much as the false manifestations within these various movements are those who overstep their bounds and end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

While some ministers like John MacArthur is right in saying what these false shepherds are doing is wrong, sinful, and demonic, he also throws out the true with the false."

David,

Thank you brother for bringing the needed
balance into this discussion. Our goal should
always be to speak the truth in love. We
should always seek to build up the Body.
When we are always looking for what is
wrong with our brother, we can find ourselves
working with the accuser of the brethren. I
have known saints that thought their job
was to go around getting everyone
straightened out, not knowing that instead
of discernment, they were operating out of
a critical spirit.


_________________
Mike

 2016/1/24 22:49Profile









 Re:

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
Gandhi

We can't clean up Christendom, brothers and sisters. But we can shine the light and love of Christ. With all the false, evil stuff taking place in Christ's name, many people are still getting saved and it seems that many unbelievers can see through what is false, even though many "sheep", have chosen not to.

 2016/1/25 0:53









 Re:

Just FYI - I agree men like MacArthur take it to far and call true Holy Spirit fire strange fire. I am not espousing cessationism or dead, dry, orthodoxy which is critical & limits the work of the Holy Spirit. Not saying anyone was saying that, Just saying if I get lumped in with that group, that's a mischaracterization. And the biggest issue with Bentley and the like wasn't even the divorce. But the false spirit in which they "minister". Divorce & immoral sins are fruit, but I'm talking the root of the Spirit one "ministers" in & what they teach. It's not even just that he shouldn't have been right back in the pulpit after a divorce. He shouldn't be back in a pulpit because of what he's teaching & the "other spirit" & "other gospel" he operates in. Praying to Angels. On and on and on. Let me be clear on that.
God Bless,
Jeff

 2016/1/25 2:47
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I believe that false teachers and prophets
should be called out by name and held
accountable. However, that does not
mean that if a brother is off on some
doctrine of the faith other than the
doctrine of Christ that he is a false teacher
or prophet.

I had conversations with Andrew Strom
through a group that we were both a part
of in the 90's. It is common for heresy hunters to
throw true servants of God and certain
movements under the bus because of
certain associations. Andrew Strom has
done this in the past.

To see someone slithering around on the
floor in a meeting is obviously demonic.
However there are many times when the
Spirit of God comes upon someone in
a revival meeting that they will tremble
and even shake. One example that comes
to mind is that just prior to the Welsh
Revival, Evan Roberts had nightly visitations
from God for several months. He shook
so hard in his bed that he woke up his
brother. "
last spring, when praying by my bedside before retiring, I was taken up to a great expanse – with out time and space. It was communion with God. Before this a far-off God I had. I was frightened that night, but never since. So great was my shivering that I rocked the bed, and my brother, being awakened, took hold of me, thinking I was ill."
(From Evan Roberts Testimony).

Let us prove all things and hold fast to that
which is good. We will know them by their
fruits.



This is why, I believe, that manifestations in and of themselves are not the issue. Spiritual discernment and the active operation of the gift of discerning of spirits is the issue (and these are two very different things). I have seen the gift of tongues and interpretation in operation, and it was powerful in its effect. I have also seen "tongues and interpretation" that were totally from the mind and the flesh...none of the Holy Spirit in it at all. Many young believers present could not tell the difference. We need mature believers who seek God actively, who are filled with the Holy Spirit, and who can exercise discernment and operate in the gifts of the Spirit.

I will be honest with you, I tend to agree with Bro. Strom on this particular issue; I think this particular movement is rife with error. While at the same time I know very solid believers who are in some of these types of movements that I know to be walking with God and are not in error. I have seen some manifestation (Never barking, slithering, or the like) such as falling out, shaking a bit, etc. that were simply a reaction of a person's flesh to the power of God, and they were not out of line. I have also seen the same manifestations that were totally out of order and in the flesh. We have to have discernment. We must be mature. We absolutely have to walk with God daily. Otherwise, we might be deceived as well.


_________________
Travis

 2016/1/25 12:03Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 5185
Louisiana

 Re:

"
This is why, I believe, that manifestations in and of themselves are not the issue. Spiritual discernment and the active operation of the gift of discerning of spirits is the issue (and these are two very different things). "

I don't believe that there is one person that has been reading the Sermon Index posts for any length of time would disagree with what Andrew Strom says about the Kundalini spirit, and those ministers that are allowing these types of demonic manifestations to take place in their meetings are lacking in discernment and are in a very dangerous position spiritually because this does open the door to the demonic in the lives of Christians.

The issue that I have with Andrew Strom and with those of you that put out a list of names of those that are supposedly false prophets and teachers is that you are slandering some of God's true servants and spreading lies to those that look to these forums as upholding the truth and exposing the counterfeit.

Since you don't have a problem with freely naming names on a list because if Andrew Strom did it, surely it must be the truth, then I don't have a problem in naming names either.

Mike Bickle is one of the names on Andrew's list of false prophets and teachers. But yet does Andrew Strom really know what Mike Bickle teaches? Does he know the staff of Godly men that are teaching at IHOP? Does he know that Mike Bickle would never allow a Kundalini spirit in one of his meetings?
If you think that all shaking and trembling are demonic then you are not going to hear anything that I am saying. I have heard Mike Bickle teach the young people at IHOP about discernment and avoiding manifestations that do not bring glory to God, and that there are fleshly manifestations out there that should be avoided.

Mike Bickle is doing a tremendous job with the young people at IHOP, and just because he was at one time involved in the prophetic movement and had fellowship with some that might be considered to be a false prophet or teacher does not mean that he embraces all that they say or do.

It is wrong to publish list of names as Andrew Strom does on who he considers to be a false prophet or teacher, because you might be right on 90% but what about the 10% that you are falsely accusing.


_________________
Mike

 2016/1/25 12:58Profile





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