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One should always be in control of themselves. The Holy Spirit never takes the ability of a person to control themselves, away.
| 2016/1/23 10:11|
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We attended 1 meeting of the Toronto "blessing" at it's height (or depth as some might say) whole lot a shaking going on. Nasty stuff
| 2016/1/23 11:00|
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To Rev, TMK, & Julius' recent comments I have to say:
Amen, amen, & amen. 😊
There is no "joy" in guarded against these things in discernment. I was in ministry in a large church in the Dallas area 10 years ago. They started out seemingly well. There was a place where there was freedom for the Holy Spirit to move, for gifts/words to be shared with the entire congregation during worship & prayer time, ministry of evangelism & serving the poor, etc. Later, there was money flowing, big new fancy buildings being built, etc. & they were very focused on the things of this world, not offending anyone, etc. I had to share many things with the leadership that was not joy for me, but was shared in the Spirit through much sorrow, tears, fasting, prayer, etc.
I was eventually told by the Lord to uproot our family & move on. When I did, I told another brother there (associate pastor) my fear for him if he stayed (the Lord told him to leave too, but his wife told him to stay - pretty clear she appreciated the nice salary) was that he stay & lose discernment. A few months later he was going to Florida chasing Todd Bentley's anointing, bringing that mess back to the sheep. Now it's Bill Johnson & all his strange manifestations & teachings (& I am a Continuist of true Pentecostal belief & believe in genuine gifts/miracles, just not the lying signs & wonders, praying to Angels, etc.). It was around this time I met Andrew (& David Servant of Heavens Family) at the John the Baptist Conference in Kansas & a few months later arranged one for them in Dallas. I met another family there that had just gone through a similar experience in another big Dallas church & we started a home fellowship of several families that just wanted to see God move like in Acts & have fellowship like Paul prescribes the church in the Corinthian letters, etc.
So I'm not "judging UNRIGHTEOUSLY" or speaking about something I am not intricately familiar with. I have seen the damage Toronto type stuff does to the church. In fact, I am quite certain Brownsville revival started out good (the early preaching & people coming to Christ was amazing, cross centered, biblical, & powerful), but later the Toronto stuff came in & wasn't properly "checked at the door". Not plying hindsight quarterback, but I wish Michael Brown (whom I love overall & has some anointed preaching during that era on dying to self, carrying the cross, laying down your life, etc.) would have stood up & said "no way! This is not of God!"
Seeing where something started out good & went south, knowing the Word of God, & my specific gifting & experience COMPELS me to speak up in love when this mess creeps into the Lord's house!
| 2016/1/23 11:44|
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Right on Jeff.
I sure agree about the Brownsville sermons. I have a bunch by Mike Brown and Bob Gladstone- so strong. I think if dr brown was asked today he would agree that things went a little too far. But if you listen to the baptism testimonies you can tell people were genuinely repenting and getting saved.
| 2016/1/23 12:01||Profile|
| Re: this post.. MERCY?? LOVE..|
Brothers and sister..
GOD moves the enemy comes in .. WHO IS GREATER GOD OR THE ENEMY?? Yes we must test all spirits..
What spirit is operating here?? MERCY?? So sorry but I dont see any mercy.. Seems that unless we were ALL under HIS mercy we would be consumed.. Lam 3:22
I will continue to side on the side of Mercy.. I am in full time ministry. If I threw people away I would feel terrible and not deserving to be called HIS daughter representing HIM.. GOD NEVER GAVE UP ON ANYONE..
The church is supposed to be a hospital for people who make mistakes. If these people did they need to repent. I was not there. IF THEY DID GOD WILL FORGIVE THEM... SHOULDNT WE..???
I do know that I will be more careful not to be invovled in such posts.. What a witness to the lost dying world.. Where is the MERCY.. Where is the LOVE..???
be BLESSED BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THE LORDS' BODY OF CHRIST
David Wilkerson Today
A Ministry of World Challenge
SATURDAY, JANUARY 23, 2016
GOD DOESN’T GIVE UP ON US
by Claude Houde
I grew up in an environment where no one expressed emotion. It was simply a question of survival! When I came to know the Lord, so many things changed. I will be eternally grateful for my first years in the faith and for those who so patiently taught me and guided me in my first steps with God. They are my spiritual mothers and fathers and I love them. However, in the mentality of the evangelical church of that era, the same attitude existed: We don’t talk about problems and pain; lift up your head and walk strong; we can do it, go, go, go! And that attitude, now wrapped in Bible verses, persists: “We can do all things . . . rejoice always . . . in everything give thanks . . . lift your eyes . . . lift up your head . . . you’re a soldier! Up! Up! Up!”
Dear friend, when we stand with our head held high, shoulders straight, and eyes toward the sky, His arms are carrying us. Now don’t miss this. When our eyes stare downward and we are weary and beaten, in the desert, through famines and sorrow, despairing because of what has been lost or destroyed, it is written, “Underneath are the everlasting arms.” “A broken reed He will not throw away” (Isaiah 42:3).
The children who played all day on the banks of the lakes where Isaiah grew up (he is the one who gives us this incredible promise) knew this game. They would pick up a reed ever so cautiously, and as they blew into it, a high pitched, flute-like sound would fill the air as the kids laughed and screamed with delight. If the fragile reed broke, it would become useless, so they would throw it away and pick up another one. But God says, “I will not throw away what has been broken.” In essence, He is saying to you, “If your life has lost its melody, its song, if your prayer or praise is gone, if your silence screams for your altar at night, I will restore you. I will come and nurse the reed for as long as it takes, until you have recaptured your music and your joy before me.”
God says, “I don’t throw people away; I will not give up on you. Build your altar and I will rebuild you. I will not put out the flame that is still burning.”
Claude Houde is the lead pastor of Eglise Nouvelle Vie (New Life Church) in Montreal, Canada. Under his leadership New Life Church has grown from a handful of people to more than 3500 in a part of Canada with few successful Protestant churches.
Read this devotional online
| 2016/1/23 17:51||Profile|
| Re: |
You seem to be overreacting a tad.
No one here- at least not me- is for not showing mercy and throwing people away.
But these leaders who are supporting and encouraging these devilish manifestations are NOT SEEKING MERCY. Quite the contrary- they are leading innocents down a path of a satanic new-age "christianity." If they sought mercy and repented, hallelujah! I'd be rejoicing.
Do we simply turn a blind eye to such things? How will people know they are being led down the path of deceit unless someone warns them?
Sure, we all have our sins. But we are not all leading congregations. Those that do must be held to a certain standard- in particular the standard to not allow the devil in God's house.
| 2016/1/23 19:02||Profile|
| Re: this |
Jeff...thanks for all your posts you've contributed to this thread.
And TMK...you are correct in stating that there has been no lack of mercy by any posters on this thread. Nor is there anyone here guilty of throwing people away.
| 2016/1/23 19:51||Profile|
| Re: |
I am very familiar with the Brownsville
Revival, and yes there were manifestations,
yes some of them were fleshly, but the
fruit was there. The Brownsville Revival
had excellent leadership. John Kilpatrick,
Michael Brown, Steve Hill are lovers of
the truth. They wanted to keep their
hands off of what the Spirit was doing as
much as possible, so not every fleshly
manifestation was called down, because
it would of done more harm than good.
Steve Hill preached strong messages of
repentance, and the Holy Spirit confirmed
the word with numerous salvations,
backsliders coming home, and the Body
of Christ being renewed and refreshed
by the presence of God.
| 2016/1/23 20:12||Profile|
| Re: |
Again, a right application of scriptural truth in context is so important. That's why we are commanded to "study to show thyself approved, a workman who need not be ashamed, but rightly dividing the Word of truth. If what Andrew is doing in this instance & what I am saying is wrong, then the apostle Paul is wrong, Jesus is wrong, Peter is wrong, John is wrong, Jude is wrong & the scriptures at large is wrong. And that's not the case. Not giving up on a weak or fallen believer is different than guarding the sheep-pen from wolves & false spirits, false teachings, false prophets & demonic manifestations infiltrating the ekklesia. I don't know how else to say it really, but the whole of scripture (both old & new testaments) are crystal clear on this. This is why leadership & the 5-fold ministry and the gifts of teaching, discernment, the prophetic gifts, & the scriptures themselves were given to the church. Otherwise, everyone just "does what is right in their own eyes", the house of God is a mess, & sound doctrine & practice are thrown out the window. God is a God of order even when He moves by His Spirit. These are just facts. And if you go back & read & study the dissolving of many of the genuine moves of God in history, it's from not properly, spiritually, & Biblically dealing with these infiltrations/attacks from the enemy to stop the genuine thing God is doing. That's not unloving. Actually, not having that leadership, protection, order, discipline, & authority which stands on the Word & Spirit of God is unloving, immature, childish, foolish & unbiblical. That may sound "hard", but it's not, it's loving & it's true. Otherwise, "sentimentality" & "emotionalism" is confused for genuine Biblical love. The apostolic example in scripture shows this clearly, & solid doctrine in the Word affirms & explains it.
| 2016/1/24 1:33|
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And the same David Wilkerson who posted "don't give up.." (Referring to a backslidden or weak believer or a lost person who needs Christ) preached like a fire-brand against these weird manifestations, demonic infiltrations, strange fire & strange spirits, laughing & uncontrollably shaking all over the ground & barking like dogs & slithering like snakes. Wilkerson, Katz, Ravenhill, Tozer, Washer, etc. are all some of my favorite preachers, but they are all CRYSTAL CLEAR on this mess & how to call out this ungodly mess like the apostles did the person who ran behind them yelling "these men are from the most high God!" In Acts. What she said was true even, but they called out this false spirit and commanded it to go, discerning it to not be of God. Wilkerson peaches like Jeremiah against that Kundalini mess.
| 2016/1/24 1:39|