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staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1417


 Re:

Hi Markuskiwi
Unfortunately I do live in the real world sometimes its good and sometimes its horrible.I have left my home country and have lived outside it.
What I am saying is persecution is a norm in the Christian Church and except that but dont preach persecution preach the gospel.God has a plan for the end and there will be persecution still but also their will be a fight,prepare for the fight and if you just prepare for persecution you wont be ready for the fight.
God has a plan thats what Im saying and its not the same as it has been down through the centuries.
Even if preparing for persecution worked what good is that to the non Christian?God has a safe haven ready(getting ready) for the Church and for the future Church
Its not the turn the other cheek Church,Its the God is coming to Judge Church repent put the sackcloth on and if you dare harm one of his servants while they minsiter this truth woe is you right now .The Church will be at its brilliant best in all ways,taking the fight to the world in power and love.Im sure for this to happen their will be some major global problem or problems but cometh the hour cometh the man or cometh the Church.
In fact what im saying is that we will be hated more than normal because of our success.
As to the 5 kids from Norway this stuff will continue until the Church stops being a doormat.May the Lord help me I hope so...
Yours Staff

 2016/1/12 7:16Profile









 Re:

Staff respectfully I don't think Greg is preaching persecution. He does post articles related to the persecuted church. But he also post articles on other things concerning the kingdom. I hardly think that a prophetic word from Dietrich Bonhoeffer is preaching persecution.

You keep saying we need to preach the gospel and not persecution. But let me ask what is at the center of the gospel. The clearest definition of the gospel is found in 1st Corinthians 15:3-4. Here Paul writes.......

For I delivered to you as a first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

....... Brother at the center of the gospel is a cross. It is a cross that Jesus had to carry to Calvary. A cross where He had to die a cruel death for our sins. But Jesus also tells us that we have to carry a cross. Not a cross in which we have to pay for our sins. But a cross where we have to die to ourselves. Consider what Jesus said in Luke 9:23-24.......

If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it but whoever loses his life for my sake, he is the one who will save it.

....... This is the gospel. Not only the gospel that saves by the cross. But the gospel that requires us to carry the cross. This I submit is lacking in gospel preaching today. We want the benefits of the cross. With no requirement to carry the cross.

One way that believers have to carry that cross is by going through persecution. Brother you say that there are some of us that are preaching persecution. Then consider what the greatest Preacher had to say regarding persecution.......

Matthew 5:10-11
Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad for your reward in heaven is great, or in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 24:9
Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my Name.

John 15:20
Remember the word that I said to you, a slave is not greater than his master. If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will keep yours also.

John 16:1-2
These things I have spoken to you so that you may be kept from stumbling. They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

Revelation 13:9-10
If anyone has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes. If anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the fate of the saints.

Brother the above verses tell us that Jesus spoke and taught and preached persecution for his followers.

I could say more but will respectfully post is for your consideration.

Bearmaster













 2016/1/12 10:38









 Re:

For three years, night and day, Paul did not cease to warn the church about false teachers and wolves in sheep clothing. I am quite sure that in those three years he also preached the Gospel. I am also sure he had his critics for doing so. If some have a ministry of warning what is to come and sharing the Gospel at the same time, what is that to others? One does not preclude the other.........bro Frank

 2016/1/12 11:42
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1417


 Re:

Hi Appolus,Bearmaster
This isnt about warning the Church about false teachers it has nothing to do with it.
Paul balanced his message I have had times of Good and times of Bad but ive learned to be content in both circumstances.This isnt about warning warning is just being a good watchmen.But who is warning the unsaved in this bunker down,gospel.
.This is gospel of persecution being preached and encouraged is based on a view of the end times that leaves out all the good stuff.
It hides behind being super holy and Prepared and is elitist.
Balance the message:Yes we will have Persecution,Yes we will have adversity,Yes our enemies Will have a go but God will raise up a Church that will know how to stand up and will defeat those who stand against us.
What Im hearing for a long time on SI is like the Israelites lined up against the Philistines.SI is the Israelites they are not David.David is the coming Church.
Lets not loose the fight before it even begins,Lets get a few shiney pebbles and take aim.
If you cant see that the type of Church God is raising up then check the word its there right in front of you,
A worry I have is that SI posters will be like Davids Brothers who worked against Gods plans,
Yours Staff

 2016/1/12 17:25Profile









 Re:

HI Staff, you write.........

"This isnt about warning warning is just being a good watchmen.But who is warning the unsaved in this bunker down,gospel."

First of all the OP had nothing to do with " bunker down gospel," whatever that means to you.

You write..........

"This is gospel of persecution being preached and encouraged is based on a view of the end times that leaves out all the good stuff."

What is? The OP or just some SI posters in general? And when you say " leaves out the good stuff," what does good stuff mean and who is leaving it out?

You write...........

"It hides behind being super holy and Prepared and is elitist."

Wow, that is quite an attack. Anybody in mind and anything to back up such a charge?

You write........

"Will have a go but God will raise up a Church that will know how to stand up and will defeat those who stand against us"

Can you actually tell us what you mean by " defeat those who stand against us?

You write.........

"If you cant see that the type of Church God is raising up then check the word its there right in front of you."

Who is that statement aimed at Staff and what does it mean to you?

"Lets not loose the fight before it even begins,Lets get a few shiney pebbles and take aim."

What does that mean to you. What does throwing shiny pebbles mean to you?

You write...........

"A worry I have is that SI posters will be like Davids Brothers who worked against Gods plans."

What does that mean to you and have you a specific target in mind? If you are going to bring any kind of charges against anyone Staff, you have to be specific and use quotes and so on to see if what you say is actually true or if it is just angry bitter remarks with no foundation against those you dont particularly care for or who see the end times differently from you ( none of which would warrant comments like elitists of enemies of Gods word and plans) ..............bro Frank

 2016/1/12 17:40









 Re:

Quote:
by staff on 2016/1/12 7:16:42
What I am saying is persecution is a norm in the Christian Church and except that but don't preach persecution preach the gospel.



Staff, I did agree with you that Christians should not be "dour" or sour, but joyful and confident in their Lord.

I do see people warning about much persecution coming and we are seeing that come true everyday. So, if we are preparing for persecution then I think we are preparing to fight. And how do we prepare but to trust in Christ, and love our enemies. Also, forgiving them for what they do to us. We are commanded not to fight with carnal weapons and to leave vengeance to God (He will repay). But, it would be very loving of you and me if like Stephen and Christ, we would pray for our enemies and ask the Lord to not lay any charge against them. That is the redemptive conduct that Christ is looking for in His people.

Quote:
God has a plan for the end and there will be persecution still but also their will be a fight,prepare for the fight and if you just prepare for persecution you wont be ready for the fight.



Jesus warned us "in the world you will have persecution, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world". So the way to prepare for persecution or any fight is "to be found in Him". He is and always will be our "ark" for safety.

Quote:
God has a plan that's what I'm saying and its not the same as it has been down through the centuries.



Why wouldn't God's plan which worked for the Early Church work for us? Can you elaborate on how the plan of God now for His people is different than what it was for the Early Church, or any number of martyred individuals down through the centuries? There are people today giving their lives for the testimony of Jesus. Are they fulfilling God's end time plan?

Quote:
Even if preparing for persecution worked what good is that to the non Christian?



Ahhh, maybe you should tell us what "preparing for persecution" means to you. I take it to mean preparing one's heart by walking close to God each day and learning to trust Him more and more.

Quote:
God has a safe haven ready(getting ready) for the Church and for the future Church



If God's "Safe Haven" is not Jesus Christ, I would like to know what it is you have in mind.

Quote:
It's not the turn the other cheek Church, its the God is coming to Judge Church repent put the sackcloth on and if you dare harm one of his servants while they minister this truth woe is you right now.



Where do you see in Scripture that "turning the other cheek" will end?

Quote:
The Church will be at its brilliant best in all ways, taking the fight to the world in power and love. I'm sure for this to happen their will be some major global problem or problems but cometh the hour cometh the man or cometh the Church.



How do you see the church "taking the fight to the world". Please elaborate.

Quote:
In fact what im saying is that we will be hated more than normal because of our success.



Please elaborate about this "success" you speak of.

Quote:
As to the 5 kids from Norway this stuff will continue until the Church stops being a doormat.



How do you propose the Church stop being a doormat? How are we to stop governments from taking advantage of us, short of fleeing?

Are you proposing physical violence against those who persecute Christians? So that you will not be misunderstood, what exactly are you proposing?

 2016/1/12 20:54
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1417


 Re:

Hi Appolus,
It is clear that alot of SI members are not putting forward a true reflection of the end times.
A view of lets go to the "Martyr Party" without tempering it with God has a plan for the end times(the good stuff)
They also seems to confuse persecution coming to the USA with the end times and never make it clear that one may not be connected to the other.This persecution may not be part of that time period but its never made clear and so confuses the lines.
I fully stand by the "elitist tag" which it surely is.Only the few that hold to your doctrine and prepare for persecution as if you could are going to get through.
The pebbles is quite obvious I think what I am saying is that people who have such a dour view of the end have the same attitude as the Iraelite army standing in front of Goliath while the Church of the end will be like David who will challenge Goliath and defeat him.
My remarks are well founded and are clearly not bitter and what your view of the end times is your own business but SI is encouraging another gospel this I dont like,
Yours Staff

 2016/1/13 7:30Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1417


 Re:

Hi Julius,
Yes Jesus overcame the world and because of that fact we will take the fight to the world,
Again the Spirit of Elijah will come again prior to Christ Return thats how the fight will be taken to the world.
The whole church will come under his ministry(partly out of nessecity) and it will then challenge the world exactly the way Elijah challenged the Israelites on Mt Carmel,it will effect political leaders exactly the way it did on Mt Carmel and it will cause the fire to fall exactly the way it did on Mt Carmel.This is the success I am taking about.
Taking the fight to the world is challenging them like Elijah and overcoming by faith in Christ like Elijah.
Sucess is the restoration of Apostolic Doctrine and the outpouring of his Spirit again similar to Acts and then the sweeping of millions of souls into the kingdom.
I am not proposing Physical violence against people who persecute Christians only in the same way Peter was involved in judging Annaias and Saphira and involved in causing a man to become blind for a season.Their will be consequences for those that try and hurt the Church in the End unitl that time is over.Both of those cases judgement came directly from God and are New Testament.The Church in some way come under the protection of God through that Ministry.
I am not aware only what was said about the 5kids in Norway.My understanding is that the state took the kids due to their Christianity in some way.I only commented that if thats the case its because we let them,
The safe haven is the Ministry of Elijah,no it wont be a bed of roses but it wont be lie down and be walked all over like Goliath was doing to the Israelites either,It will be competitive and we will confirm to the world the victory Christ has given us through his death,
Yours Staff

 2016/1/13 8:00Profile









 Re:

Staff you have been making statements about what the end time church will be but bringing no scripture to support your view. My understanding of the New Testament is that there is no end time ministry of Elijah.

Since the days of Pentecost the Holy Spirit was poured out and is continuing to be poured out. There is revival taking place in the Middle East. The Spirit is moving. But it is moving against the backdrop of persecution.

So I challenge you present to us scriptures particularly from the New Testament that state that's such a ministry you hold to will take place in the end times.

Respectfully submitted.

Bearmaster



 2016/1/13 8:47









 Re:

Quote:
by staff on 2016/1/13 8:00:15

Hi Julius,
Yes Jesus overcame the world and because of that fact we will take the fight to the world,



Actually, the Word says that Jesus overcame the world and because He did we will overcome, also.


Quote:
Again the Spirit of Elijah will come again prior to Christ Return that's how the fight will be taken to the world.



I am really trying to understand you on this. Can you give me the scriptures that you are referencing regarding the spirit of Elijah? How is the spirit of Elijah different from the Spirit of Christ who has given us everything we need pertaining to life and godliness and overcoming?

Quote:
The whole church will come under his ministry(partly out of necessity) and it will then challenge the world exactly the way Elijah challenged the Israelites on Mt Carmel, it will effect political leaders exactly the way it did on Mt Carmel and it will cause the fire to fall exactly the way it did on Mt Carmel.This is the success I am taking about.



Are you talking about a literal fire? The entire church right now is under the ministry of Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit. And Jesus Christ confronted the world while He was on earth and is confronting it now and overcoming it through His saints, again, even now. So, I don't see how we will now come under the "ministry of Elijah" but it seems that you think this ministry is for the Church to bring judgement on people. Ananias and Sapphira were in the Church. The Church has not historically classified them as the "world" or false prophets of Baal. Please clarify and supply scriptures so I am clear on what you are saying.

Quote:
Taking the fight to the world is challenging them like Elijah and overcoming by faith in Christ like Elijah.



Again, what is wrong with challenging the world as Jesus did. And Jesus never turned tail and ran as Elijah did when he hid from Jezebel. Isn't it better to rise up in the spirit of Christ and face the Jezebel spirit head-on? Many courageous men and women have and even lost their lives for maintaining the testimony of Jesus.

Quote:
Success is the restoration of Apostolic Doctrine and the outpouring of his Spirit again similar to Acts and then the sweeping of millions of souls into the kingdom.



We see in Acts, Stephen being martyred, and Paul being stoned many times. They preached the gospel (took the fight to the world).

Quote:
I am not proposing Physical violence against people who persecute Christians only in the same way Peter was involved in judging Annaias and Saphira and involved in causing a man to become blind for a season.



Are you saying saints will not have to die anymore and we will just call down fire from heaven to decimate our foes? Again, Annanias and Sapphira were of the church.

{quote]Their will be consequences for those that try and hurt the Church in the End unitl that time is over.Both of those cases judgement came directly from God and are New Testament.The Church in some way come under the protection of God through that Ministry.


Scriptures, please.

Quote:
The safe haven is the Ministry of Elijah,no it wont be a bed of roses but it wont be lie down and be walked all over like Goliath was doing to the Israelites either,It will be competitive and we will confirm to the world the victory Christ has given us through his death,



I believe that true saints have been confirming Christ's victory through the way they have lived and died, for many centuries, now. The safe haven has always been the ministry of the Holy Spirit which is Jesus Christ in us, the hope of glory.

 2016/1/13 8:54





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