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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling?

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letsgetbusy
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Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling?

I am interested in hearing, from Scripture, what evidence there is that immersion is not the Biblical mode. I have done much study on the subject, and have made the decision to go with immersion (I was sprinkled as a baby). Not to beat anybody up or anything, I just want to hear the Biblical view of someone who believes in pouring or sprinkling. I am familiar with probably all Scripture on immersion, let's give the other guys a chance now. (Better hurry, I am going to call my buddy with a lake, soon!)


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Hal Bachman

 2005/5/15 0:46Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling?

I've been giving this topic a lot of thought lately, so I'll share where I'm at on this issue at the moment.

I was baptized both ways. I accept the first (infant) baptism as a covenant promise, in the same way that ancient Israel received a covenant promise. As we know, Israel did not claim the promise because of unbelief. (see Hebrews) I had yet to claim the promises of the NEW Covenant.

Even my immersion baptism at 17 yo, really didn't come to full significance spiritually for a long time. I had a lot of changing yet to do - through the work of the Spirit.

At this point in my life (I am 52) neither of my baptisms "hold much water" in that, only what is going on in my heart counts for eternity. Like Paul, who had such a wonderful religious heritage, I too, "count it all rubbish" except for the reality of knowing Christ. That doesn't mean that all Paul's religious past, or my religious past was bad. It was very good, really - part of the journey. It just means that the real thing is now all that is important - that is Christ in me - his life, not mine.

Pictures are great - but they aren't the real thing. In the Bible, I believe that the command to baptize assumed the real thing - repenting from one's trust in the world, and turning to Christ. In those days baptism was a cultural practise - a public washing signifying one's decision to abandon his/her pagan heritage and follow the Jewish faith.

When we get to the final judgment, we will not be asked how we got baptized, but if indeed we were baptized for real - by the Spirit of fire. Matt. 3:11 (ie New life given by the Holy Spirit - being born from above) "Many will say, Lord, Lord, I was baptized, I did miracles.. etc..." But Christ will say, Depart from me, I never knew you."

Well, I didn't do a good job answering your question - just gave some food for thought. I know that you will seek the Lord in this matter, and do what truely pleases and honors him. It looks like maybe the Lord is moving you towards the lake. May God bless you and may his Spirit continue to conform you to the image of Christ!
Diane


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Diane

 2005/5/16 11:12Profile









 Re: Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling?


"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire" (Matthew 3:11).

Since He (Jesus) came, water has nothing to do with baptism. We are baptized by the Holy Ghost.

Bub

 2005/5/16 17:24
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

God bless you, roadsign. When anybody starts talking about repentance or being baptized with fire, I get excited, and you talked about both. Paul said, "Christ sent me not to baptize, BUT TO PREACH THE GOSPEL." (1 Corinthians 1:17) I also get excited when somebody else says the same things I'm thinking, since I think that is the Holy Spirit guiding us into all truth. One reason God may be moving me to the lake is because I'm planning on inviting a bunch of people (converted and unconverted) and preaching the gospel to them after my buddy baptizes me, and teaching them basically what you said, that it is repentance and faith that saves, not baptism. Then I'll offer baptism just like Peter did, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."


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Hal Bachman

 2005/5/21 20:46Profile
Crysddd
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Joined: 2004/10/4
Posts: 12


 Re: Baptism: Immersion, Pouring or Sprinkling?

the word baptize is a greek word that they did not translate when they went to the english language. the word simply means to submerge, or to dunk. Outward baptism has yet to save anyone but is a public confession of what has already taken place in the spirit. physical baptism represents your identification with Christ in his death, buriel and resurrection. it is your declaration of you being dead in Christ and alive unto God. we are buried with him through baptism into his death, that like as Christ was raised from the dead so also we should walk in newness of life.....

 2005/5/21 23:40Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Jake/Bubbaguy writes;
Since He (Jesus) came, water has nothing to do with baptism. We are baptized by the Holy Ghost.

The only way that you could possibly maintain this position is by ignoring Christ's words in Matt 28, Peter's words in Acts 2 & 10. Did you never notice...Acts 10:48 And he [u]commanded[/u] them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Paul baptised, so did Philip the Evangelist. But what are the witness of Christ, Peter, Paul and Philip compared to your 'inner witness'? When are you going to see where your position inevitably takes you? You persistently start with your conclusions and work backwards accepting or rejecting the evidence as fits your purpose.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/5/22 4:46Profile









 Re:

Ron,

As far as I know baptism isn't part of the ten commandments or the two that Jesus replaced these ten with. ("'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.")

Baptism has nothing to do with salvation. How does a sprinkling of water bring an infant (or adult for that matter)to God or have anything to do with repentence or redemtion? Baptism is an outward form of an inward commitment (on par with circumcision) performed for the sake of those observing. It is anachronistic.

BTW, when's the last time you sacrificed a lamb on the alter? Not lately? Jesus made it unnecessary, as He did baptism. What else could be the point of "he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost." If you are baptized with the Holy Ghost why waste your time with water, expect for the outward ceremonial purposes?

I do not mean to offend anyone with this post. Baptism, if you want to have an outward ceremony to demonstrate your commitment to God, is perfectly fine and not wrong. It's just not necessary.

Bub

 2005/5/23 21:56









 Re:

[b]"Many will say, Lord, Lord, I was baptized, I did miracles.. etc..." But Christ will say, Depart from me, I never knew you." [/b]

Now, first, id like you all to realize that this here is a MIS-quote, by Roadsign.

This is what the word says;[b]Matthew 7:21-23[/b]
[i]21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, [b]"did we not prophesy[/b]" in Your name, and in Your name[b]" cast out demons[/b]", and in Your name perform many miracles?'

23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' [/i]

now, it did NOT say 'did you get baptised'.

Your intent was correctly given, but DONT quote the holy Word..and ASSUME that 'this is this, or that is that'...say 'i think is might say this...i could be wrong'. Doctrines of demons come outta a 'mistaken word'.

[b]Baptism has [u]nothing[/u] to do with salvation. How does a sprinkling of water bring an infant (or adult for that matter)to God or have anything to do with repentence or redemtion? Baptism is an outward form of an inward commitment (on par with circumcision) performed for the sake of those observing. It is anachronistic.[/b]

Now, this was from bubbaguy. Now, this is far from the Truth. Please, everyone be CAREFUL in stating doctrine that the Father has given us. Nothing? Does a ring on a women's finger have NOTHING to do with her commitment to her husband? So is the same with our beloved Husband.

**I love that revelation**.

 2005/5/24 1:10
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: baptism can become an idolatrous trust

Quote:
Many will say, Lord, Lord, I was baptized,


The spirit of the reference is that many will trust in something THEY DID. You could insert anything in here, not just the examples Jesus mentioned (which may or may not be true for people).

I believe that there are MANY, MANY, MANY who are relying on their past baptism and other religious works as a sign of entitlement - that they should get into heaven.

No where in the NT (I think) did baptism became merely a religious ritual, but I do see many other examples where something good became merely religous activity - an idol, even though it first came from God. (the Pharisees)

Anything good and godly can become an object of trust ex: the bronze serpant on the pole. The true meaning of the ritual got lost.

Our modern day churches are plagued with idolatry - not just things/ideas that originated from the world, but things/rituals that were given by God.
I'm very concerned about this - that's why I tend to harp about it maybe.

For centuries zealous Christians have been trying to clean the church of all possibilities for idolatry, and that has never worked, it just caused a lot of strife. Even then, aspects of worship became "sanctified" idols. The place where something becomes an idol is IN THE HEART. Only God knows the true heart, and that is what determines ones standing with him.
Diane


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Diane

 2005/5/24 7:25Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Bubbaguy, "by faith we understand..."

We don't understand first, and then believe.

We believe, and then we understand afterwards.

Look at Abraham.


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Mark Nash

 2005/5/24 9:14Profile





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