SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Help! I've got 10 wives!!

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 Next Page )
PosterThread
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re: Help! I've got 10 wives

Reply to
Help! I've got 10 Wives

The posts seem to have gone from multiple wives to divorce. Maybe that is what the discussion has been about all along.

While reading these posts, I can't help but think there are people that have been hurt by divorce that are reading these posts. Many if not most Christians are taught that remarriage is adultery. Often people who have been faithfull to his or her spouse have been divorced by the mate. Some people talk of divorce and remarriage as if it is the unpardonable sin refusing to minister any grace or mercy even to the inocent person.

Jesus, while speaking to the Parisees said that they put burdens on people that they themselves wouldn't move with one of their fingers. (Mathew 23:4) Wouldn't expecting someone else to remain unmarried and knowing that he or she couldn't live up to it themselves be the same? While speaking on the mount, Jesus said that when a man looks at a woman to lust after her he has committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Math. 5:28) Should those who have done this never get married? When God said it's not good for a man to be alone, would being divorced change that fact? If the unmarried and widows can't contain, let them marry, (1 Cor 7:8+9) would being divorced make the person more likely to be able to contain or to have self-control? In (1 Timothy 4:1-3) where forbidding to marry is called a doctrine of devils, isn't at least sometimes a ministers refusal to minister a marriage cerimony this doctrine?

Once the Lord told me to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. I actually told him it would never happen to me. It was sort of like Peter saying he would never deny him. It wasn't long that I was chewing on that bread and didn't even know it. Eventually the Lord had me drop my stone. (John 8:9)

If someone is reading this that is hurting from divorce, God makes a way when there isn't a way. Often we are where we are at because we have disobeyed him, but when we repent and pray it all works out for good eventually. There is a need to tell the Lord that no matter if you never get married again, you will still follow him. By giving your will to the Lord in this it opens up the opportunity for the Lord to heal you and protect you from all this hurt. You must also forgive anyone involved with this including yourself. Remember, it is the olive that has been crushed that brings the oil that heals others.

In Christ,
GaryE



_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2005/5/17 2:07Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Remember, it is the olive that has been crushed that brings the oil that heals others.



Oh! My brother, you have no idea how many ends this ties up! Thank you for your ministry in the Spirit.

 2005/5/17 7:14
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: getting a grip on marriage

Quote:
I don't think anyone knows what Marriage really is.


Amen, Karl. It is only as we see through God's perspective that we can make some sense of it. Marriage is be a prophetic picture - and we are to present the picture to the world through our lives. Yet, trying to attain the ideal is impossible - and causes a lot of frustration.

Quote:
I hardly know a Christian man who will sit down with some Godly marriage&relationship literature/books/videos to try and gain some knowledge in thier marriage relationship


Tony, I'm one who has carefully sought and studied every available resource. I learned volumes about the ideal marriage, and tried to impliment the advise. In the end, after all my efforts, I felt intensely defeated, because I could not make the ideal happen. I couldn't fix a thing. It's like trying to live up to the Law, and never arriving - a set-up for dismal failure.

Your words feel a bit like a cruel stab to the already defeated - though I know you didn't mean it that way.

Whether we are talking about polygamy, divorce, or adultery, we end up with the same conclusion. WE CAN'T FIX IT.

If we stretch our thinking beyond our own culture and time, we have to admit that in general, people are in situations that are beyond their control - due to cultural values, oppression, dysfunctional background. It is even impossible to change oneself - patterns that have been established since birth. It's like learning a brand new language. A psychologist once told me that books rarely work to fix troubled relationships. I can see why.

I ask: Do "ideal" marriages make strong Christians? I think that it is in brokenness and troubles that one cries out to God. He reaches down and touches them. (think of Leah, one of Jacob's wives)

I once heard that in revival, God will work mainly through the divorced, the prostitutes etc (ie those the "righteous" tend to regard as the sinners and losers) Isn't that what Jesus did?

May all on this site who suffer in relational turmoils be comforted by God's voice wooing them, saying,

I will betroth you to ME forever.
I will betroth you in righteousness and justice,
in love and compassion...
In that day, you will call me
'MY HUSBAND'

And [you] will say,
"You are my God."
Hosea 2:16,19,23

In eternity that is the only marriage that will exist!!!!!!!!!!
Diane



_________________
Diane

 2005/5/17 7:49Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
i wonder, just out of curiousity, how many really hard messages have we heard in recent years on the subject of infidelity in marriage? I can't really think of any that targeted it, even in marriage conferences.



I see the same thing. Truly, I get wearied listening to the so called experts on marriage who bring examples of how marriages and family 'ought' to be performed in homes and have them tell of how if you just do things 'right' then life will be akin to Little House on the Prarie or something. What you rarely hear is how folk DID raise their families right and the kids still went to the devil. The spouses that DID do everything right and the mate took off and committed adultery or left all together. The people who never suffered a mate running off or never saw their wife with child by another man or a woman with child by their husband have no idea what they are even talking about, plainly put.

Quote:
It seems like you are saying that men who practised polygamy, were held accountable for how they treated the wives they had. In some cultures, isn't polygamy a way of providing social security for women? That seems like a good thing.



This is a biblical principal that carries over into the New Testament:

[i]But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel[/i] (I Timothy 5:8)

Provision comes in lots of forms. I believe first that provision begins with [i]protection[/i]. A man has the responsibility to provide this protection for his family and if necessary lay down his life. Here we read... [i]Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and [u]gave Himself[/u] for it...[/i];(Ephesians 5). Man has the responsibility if possible to provide shelter and food. Moreover, men and women are responsible to give their bodies one to the other as they do not have power over their body but the spouse does. It is a wicked thing to use relations as a means of manipulation or control. It also opens the door for the spouse to be tempted for their incontenency. Actually, it is witchcraft and the perpetrator is serving as the agent of Satan or the [i]means[/i] by which the spouse could fall.

Quote:
In the Mormon community "Bountiful" (In western Canada) the practise of polygamy involves horrible abuse - shaming, sexual abuse, control, male domination.... They practised polygamy for religious reasons - the more wives a man had, the higher status in heaven (at the expense of the women and girls). That is very evil.



This is serving Asteroth. It is a religion that is based upon illicit experience.

Keep in mind that one of the stipulations for becoming a Bishop or Deacon in the pastoral epistles was that the person in question must be a "one woman man." This indicates that there were men that were in some kind of way more than "one woman men". Either there were [i]whoremongers[/i] that had applied for the position (that can't be practicing woremongering or they would not be truly Christians and would be expelled from the church). They were [i]widowers[/i] whose spouse had died and they were remarried (this could not be as Paul would not give instruction to young widows to remarry and be saved in child bearing, etc. if remarriage after widowhood was somehow a compromise). They were [i]divorced[/i] and remarried and therefor had been the husband of more than one wife (this is the traditional and most popular view) or they were [i]polygamists[/i] (some historians say this is impossible because this was not a common practice in the NT Greco Roman culture, while others say it was commonplace. We do know that slavery was rampant and that the Gospel had spread to other cultures that may have practiced it). No matter what, we KNOW that it was NOT God's plan and STILL is not God's plan. Personally I believe it would be on par with slavery and I believe slavery to be a great evil.

So we see then that God had ways of dealing with those who had compromised the marital relationship. If we want to be as strict as possible we could say that no man that ever knew more than one woman romantically qualifies for leadership. That would be truly a "one woman man." if we look at the passage as Pentecostal Greek Scholar and teacher Dr. Charles Westlake believes it is a "One woman kind of man." A man that only has eyes for one woman. I believe this is the meaning of the pastoral texts. A man could be married once and have eyes for every woman he sees and qualify for leadership in many circles. Yet a man could have been married more than once and truly love his wife with a 'single eye' and be disqualified. Let your conscience be the judge. Better yet, what is the Holy Ghost saying?

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/5/17 8:48Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Remember, it is the olive that has been crushed that brings the oil that heals others.



What do you say when the pharisees say that a crushed olive is a worthless olive both to God and man?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/5/17 8:56Profile
TonyS
Member



Joined: 2005/1/29
Posts: 154
Kansas City, Missouri

 Re:

Diane,

Thanks for this post.
You wrote:

Quote:
Whether we are talking about polygamy, divorce, or adultery, we end up with the same conclusion. WE CAN'T FIX IT.



Those four words are most interesting to me personally "You can't fix it." For two years after having abandoned my spouse they were the only words I heard from heaven. I was not even in a frame of mind to know that I could not, but with God all things are possible. And He has , and is fixing it.

In the last one and one half years I have spoken to scores of innocent victims of divorce and have been amazed how God moves in to comfort, heal broken hearts and give hope to (mostly ladies) who are in terrible depression.

I also stand by my statement, there are so few [u]men[/u] who will avail themselves to the worthwhile works that could just help them in dwelling with their spouse according to knowledge. The wives try, the women seek out help, but sadly all too often Christian men because of pride shut out sources that God has designed that have the potential to bring help.

My downfall started with the mind, I did not immediately cast down those imaginations that would in very short order wreck havoc and destruction on all fronts.

This is what David Wilkerson said in his April 11th message:
"In short, there is no other school as difficult and intense as the school of marriage. And you never graduate. God is making it clear to us: our life with our loved ones is the pinnacle, the very summit, of all our testings. If we get it wrong here, we'll have it wrong everywhere else in our life."

God bless,
tony


_________________
Tony Sexton

 2005/5/17 11:17Profile









 Re: Help! I've got 10 wives re RobertW

Quote:
What do you say when the pharisees say that a crushed olive is a worthless olive both to God and man?



I'd be grateful (Robert) if you could explain a little more who you mean by 'the pharisees' and what they mean by 'worthless'? Thanks.

Quote:
They were widowers whose spouse had died and they were remarried (this could not be as Paul would not give instruction to young widows to remarry and be saved in child bearing, etc. if remarriage after widowhood was somehow a compromise). They were divorced and remarried and therefor had been the husband of more than one wife (this is the traditional and most popular view)



The matter of being a husband of one wife, is one [i]living[/i] wife. Marriage is until death do us part. Once a spouse has died, the widow(er) is free to remarry. (Romans 7:1-3)

The question of divorce and remarriage I will not touch except to say GaryE spoke a lot of sense. There is also the matter of the reasons a marriage breaks up and whether hope for reconciliation is realistic or not. Often this is bound up with the attitude to God of one or other spouse and the complications which provoked the separation.

When I had to leave my husband, I realised something for the first time ever. Only [i][b]I [/b][/i] could know whether my course of action was justified. Further I did not need to explain or justify it to anyone else. Lastly, it was extremely difficult to put into words. Instantly, I remembered how often I'd tried to advise (close) friends and instantly, I realised how unhelpful or useless my contributions may have been. In short, I was embarrassed to remember myself. Latterly, I was very grateful to be left in peace to sort out my life, with God, Who had been nothing but supportive of my decision.

 2005/5/17 14:07
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
The matter of being a husband of one wife, is one living wife. Marriage is until death do us part. Once a spouse has died, the widow(er) is free to remarry. (Romans 7:1-3)



It is this belief that gets people labelled "Pharisees" or "lacking in grace or compassion". I know, I have been accused of such, by the very nicest of Christians.

Concerning the statement, "the pharisees say that a crushed olive is a worthless olive both to God and man?"

I think that is a very wrong assertion. I am a permanency of marriage proponent (believing a marriage covenant bound by God is UNBREAKABLE until death) and I certainly do not believe a "crushed olive is worthless". There are some I know presently who have fallen (or dove) into sin(committing biblical adultery---extramaritally or through unbiblical remarriage) and have forsaken the adulterous relationship and are being used greatly by God----whether through a restored covenant marriage or alone(with Jesus at their side).

When one truly forsakes their sin and submits themselves COMPLETELY to the Lord (not expecting anything in return), God can and does do mighty works in and through that person. There is great potential in every crushed olive.........Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

Here's a great site concerning marriage, what is is and what it is not:

http://www.marriagedivorce.com/hosea2.htm


_________________
Cindy

 2005/5/17 15:08Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

To be honest Dorcas, this topic has sifted me and other saints who really love God so bad in the last 5 months that I personally am battle weary to even enguage the issues. I know what the word teaches and the gaps that people try to fill in. When we are talking about divorce and remarriage we are moving in waters without a compass under cloudy sky at midnight. Jesus chose not to address the "what shall we do next" aspects of remarriage. He had opportunity and for what ever reason chose NOT to speak to the issue. Why? I have no idea.


Everyone has to be fully persuaded in their own minds what to do. I cannot tell and will not tell people how to get on with their lives after tragedy has struck. I do not have the wisdom and It is enough that all hell itself sits in wait to bring a believer down without me adding my 2 cents.

Let me say this though; when it comes to playing the role of the Holy Ghost I do not stand in that line. "To his/her own Master they stand or fall." I will not "set at nought my brother/sister." I will not "judge" them. I would tell you what I have said before- "Do what the Holy Ghost is saying for you to do- nothing more and nothing less" and it will be gospel to me. You have to answer to God and so do I. I tremble and fear to give advice when scripture is simply not clear on the issues.

You do what God tells you to do and ignore everything else. Don't let folk come in who may have good intentions and fill your mind with questions that wound your conscience. was God dealing with you before that person showed up? If so- do what He says. If not- when in doubt don't do ANYTHING until you have clear direction from God.

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/5/17 15:38Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I know, I have been accused of such, by the very nicest of Christians.



I would like to know how God views the teaching.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/5/17 15:43Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy