SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Help! I've got 10 wives!!

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 )
PosterThread
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
May God grant us(me) the understanding and Grace as we(me) carefully handle the sword.



I will "Amen" this for myself as well. Thank you Tony and thanks also concerning the book. Is it affordable?

Robert,

We'll leave off then. Blessings brother. In Him, Cindy


_________________
Cindy

 2005/5/25 19:46Profile









 Re: General stuff

Quote:
When you teach/preach Robert, do you just speak scripture or do you share what YOU believe the scriptures are teaching?



This is one of those statements that don't make sense. Forgive me Cindy, but this doesn't make a lick of sense. Everyone including Jesus spoke the word as he or she sees it. You can quote scripture all day long but if you don't give it's intrepetation no one will understand it. That is why He sent forth preachers/teachers so that they can know.

We including you, give an opinion on how we see scripture. For the most part in a general sense on general issues, most of us including yourself is right. But when it comes to these issues that rise eyebrows and/or makes our heart beat faster, we need to be careful how we interpret, because the reason why we are reacting to this this way, is because we are trying defend a situation in our life or someone else's life.

Tradition can be an ugly thing to defend, but most of the populas defend this. They defend it in their creeds or doctrine, but when someone crosses the way they think, all hell is broke loose. The Pharisees are a prime example of this.

Please do not miscontrude what I am saying, I am not directing any of this at you, this stuff is general.

Karl

 2005/5/25 21:37
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
This is one of those statements that don't make sense. Forgive me Cindy, but this doesn't make a lick of sense. Everyone including Jesus spoke the word as he or she sees it. You can quote scripture all day long but if you don't give it's intrepetation no one will understand it. That is why He sent forth preachers/teachers so that they can know.



You misunderstood my question Karl. It was a reflective question based upon a statement Robert made to me. Yes, I agree with you. I believe when any of us insert words beyond what the scriptures say EXACTLY, we insert our own understanding of the scriptures and what they are speaking to us. That was my point when I asked Robert that question. We ALL do it when we share in discussion, teach, preach, etc. He said he just lays it all on the table and allows the evidence to speak. I was basically refuting that position. That's all. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy :-)


_________________
Cindy

 2005/5/25 23:52Profile









 Re:

OK, there seems to be agreement that each person, in a general way, is allowed to choose their own words to explain what they have come to believe is meant by the scripture they are expounding. This did not go without saying, it seems. And, I understand that there may be scriptures that mean only one thing; but, I usually see layers of possible interpretation, as one moves between the physical and the spiritual, often with implications for the soul and its well-being, depending on the topic in hand. This is where it is necessary to be practical, if a practical situation is in the spotlight, or spiritual, if the implications are entirely mystical. Frankly, the more I think about it, I'm not sure the latter exists.

Cindy, that's why I'm mystified, now you have clarified that you were specifically refuting the necessity of looking at the facts and discerning the meaning of them in a practical situation - always under the influence of the Spirit (I am assuming and would normally include this without saying).

Quote:
He said he just lays it all on the table and allows the evidence to speak. I was basically refuting that position.



What do you understand the Holy Spirit to bring to us through new birth, being filled and baptised in Him, if gifts of discernment and interpretation are not given to some in today's church?

Is this at the root of disagreement in this thread, possibly?

 2005/5/26 6:16
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
Cindy, that's why I'm mystified, now you have clarified that you were specifically refuting the necessity of looking at the facts and discerning the meaning of them in a practical situation - always under the influence of the Spirit (I am assuming and would normally include this without saying).



Boy, I must not be communicating very well......
:-P Listen, I believe we must ALWAYS look to scripture first and foremost. I also believe that what God says CLEARLY should always be taken above what "He is speaking to me personally"..........which if, in opposition to the Written Word, should be discarded. Let me clarify one more time: Robert basically said I am steering people to my conclusion by doing much more than just laying the scriptures on the table. He says He doesn't do that. I disagreed. We all after studying, praying, seeking----when we present what we believe put our own "spin", put certain scriptures together someone else may not, etc. None of us just "lays the scriptures on the table and lets it speak for themselves".........we ALL intrepret what the Word means to us. That's why some people will only use certain translations to "boost" their viewpoint, only one definition that fits their viewpoint of many from the greek lexicon, say "see the Words used here are the same(in English)", yet in the greek those words can clearly be shown to be different words.

It's a hard, hard thing to just give the evidence without showing one's bias-----almost impossible actually because once someone believe the Lord God Himself has shown Truth, most believers want to share that either to protect the Body from error and strengthen it, but it's important to try as best as we can to fit ALL the pieces to find truth.

Are we all correct in our interpretations? No, I don't believe so. Especially when it comes to moral/sin issues. What is not ok for one in this area, is not ok for another and I think that really is the main issue here when discussing scripture on this topic.

Quote:
What do you understand the Holy Spirit to bring to us through new birth, being filled and baptised in Him, if gifts of discernment and interpretation are not given to some in today's church?



I believe in the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit. What I don't agree with is "private interpretation" which is in opposition to the written Word of God. Some personal things the Lord speaks to us, is for us "in part", but we run with it and get off into error. I told you what I believed "widow" pertains to........I personally believe the Lord could speak that to a woman who is together in a marriage, not only to a divorced woman or a widowed woman. I think it was a post by Chanin recently speaking about the Lord being her husband, even though she is married. It was about acknowledging the primacy of God above a husband. Some husbands do not "love" and take care of their wives. For those, they could grasp hold of that scripture and KNOW the Lord is their provider/protector, not see it as ok to divorce and remarry, as that would go against clear scripture admonishing that as sin. It is to me, a picture that the LORD is our ULTIMATE husband-----when our flesh husbands fail to take care of us and love us as Christ loves the church, the LORD is there and that is our comfort........Blessings in Jesus, Cindy


_________________
Cindy

 2005/5/26 10:13Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Listen, I believe we must ALWAYS look to scripture first and foremost. I also believe that what God says CLEARLY should always be taken above what "He is speaking to me personally"..........which if, in opposition to the Written Word, should be discarded.



Without the help of the Holy Spirit I would not be able to understand the scriptures at all. I'm not sure how you can attribute a word as being from God, which you later feel free to discard - unless it was not from God in the first place.

Contrary to the impression you may have from the small amount I've shared in this thread, I am very keen on Bible study and do not claim much by way of gifts. I'm certainly not going to begin to justify how God speaks to me or uses me in daily life, because the whole point of walking in the Spirit is to have that inner knowledge of His presence and His direction in the manner of being in which we are and do. If I seem to be drifting off into incomprehensibility here, I apologise.

In reading your answer, probably what TonyS last shared in this thread accords best with what I mean. When you talk about bias, it is not an intellectual bias we most impose, it is the bias of our being, our need, the things we do not yet understand, rather, often, than what we have experienced.

Or, experience makes us less rather than more sure we can tell another how to interpret the word of God to their heart. We can only tell them how God has interpreted it to our heart and then leave them to go do their own listening, hopefully remembering we cannot protect others from their mistakes. Maybe some mistakes, but not all. Was not the Lord greater than our mistakes?

This should steady our heart as we release them to their own personal encounters with God. Better to be gentle with them and ready for them to return in tears, then to minister the gentleness and truth which God gives us in that hour - often the pure word of God from scripture - than to hedge them around with so many prohibitions they feel their life has been taken over. It [i]is[/i] supposed to be an abundant life and this is what others need to perceive God has for them. This will be a source of growth, for us and them.

I realise that marriage is big mistake to make but I don't think there is a way to prevent them. It is in the same category as trying to prevent unwanted pregnancies. At least the urge to be married and have children is natural. Of this we should be thankful. Not sure this is a digression, but I will stop here.

 2005/5/26 15:12
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

If I make a mistake, when I find out that it is wrong and against what God's perfect plan is, and I make the same mistake to rectify the first mistake, who am I trying to please? Is it really God I want to please or is my own condemnation and guilt trying to make me feel good about myself by using God's Word to relieve the guilt of my sin. I have sinned, Christ died for that sin, am I now to commit another sin to rectify the first sin, God forbid. If I am divorced and remarried to a different person, and I feel guilt and condemnation, where is it coming from? Myself, Satan, or others, or the Godly guilt that will change my mind to the Mind of Christ. If it is myself then what I do is coming from my works to make things right. If it is Satan, I am being deceived and lied to, so I will do works of repentance to release myself from the guilt. If it from the pulpit or other Christians them I am trying to please them that they will see how righteous I am. If it is God, then my guilt is not counterfeit but true, but, 1 John 1:7-10 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I can not commit perpetual adultery, either I am an adulterer by looking at another person with lust, or I have broken God's Law and committed adultery against my marriage partner, either way I am guilty. If my spouse divorces me because it is adultery or I divorce my marriage partner for someone else, it is all sin, and I am an adulterer. Did Christ die for this sin or am I condemned to die in my sin? No matter if I am a Christian or not, Christ died for it. The difference is as a Christian I can when I know that the sin is wrong I can be released from it and go and sin no more, and even if I sin again, God is faithful to His Son and will forgive me again and this Love will eventually change my mind to the Mind of Christ and because of Love I won't want to sin anymore. Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:4-6 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

I am a sinner and can do nothing about it, only Christ in me can make me righteousness before the Father, the more I believe this, the more I have made the change to the Mind of Christ. Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

We are cleansed and washed and forgiven and It is our minds that need cleaning up not our works. The works will show the cleansing of my Mind in Christ Jesus. Then the cleansing will be the works of Christ in me the Hope of Glory.

Romans 7:23-25 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Once it has been revealed by the Holy Spirit that we are in sin we must make the Cross the only way of repentance and then we will change our mind to the Mind of Christ, which we already have. "Do I condemn you, where are those that condemn you? There are none and I condemn you not go and sin no more." Get over it and serve Christ.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2006/2/2 2:10Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Let me ask you something Philip.....please just ponder this:

If a married man has a woman on the side--producing a couple of children in the process.....and he comes to the Lord with a repentant heart, can he continue in his adultery and it be fine with the Lord?

If a couple in an illicit pre-marital relationship come to the Lord and are sorry about their sinful relationship, can they then again resume this relationship in it's previous form and it be fine with the Lord?

If a couple who have married civilly, yet are gay, come to the Lord sorrowfully for their sin of homosexuality, can they they continue in their present relationship and it be fine with the Lord?

What would the "fruit" of repentance look like in each case? Blessings in Him, Cindy


_________________
Cindy

 2006/2/2 21:06Profile
1956Ford
Member



Joined: 2005/9/4
Posts: 18
NC

 Re:

Quote:

lastblast wrote:
Let me ask you something Philip.....please just ponder this:

If a married man has a woman on the side--producing a couple of children in the process.....and he comes to the Lord with a repentant heart, can he continue in his adultery and it be fine with the Lord?

If a couple in an illicit pre-marital relationship come to the Lord and are sorry about their sinful relationship, can they then again resume this relationship in it's previous form and it be fine with the Lord?

If a couple who have married civilly, yet are gay, come to the Lord sorrowfully for their sin of homosexuality, can they they continue in their present relationship and it be fine with the Lord?

What would the "fruit" of repentance look like in each case? Blessings in Him, Cindy



I believe the adultery that occurs during remarriage is just like any other adultery or sin. All sin must be repented of and forsaken.


_________________
Cheryl

 2006/2/2 22:11Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy