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inotof
Member



Joined: 2005/1/7
Posts: 267
Morehead, KY

 Help! I've got 10 wives!!

Okay Bible Scholars. . .
Why did God sanction muliple wives in the old testament? I've ruled out pro-creation,culture and symbolic(still open to a relevant thought though) reasons. Now i am stuck. Anyone got any answers that hold water scriptually, I suppose im open to interpetations, but would really like to know what saith the scriptures--i've searched but come up blank.thanks d


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David

 2005/5/14 16:38Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re: Help! I've got 10 wives!!

Hi inotof,

I don't know that God ever 'sanctioned' multiple wives. I believe it would be more accurate to say that He 'tolerated' it. Just like He tolerated concubines. Jesus said "from the beginning it was not so." It was God's plan for marriage to be one man and one women together forever. I don't mean one man and one woman 'married' - I mean one man and one women PERIOD. Not a life of fornication with multiple partners and then 'settling down' with a spouse and calling it God's plan. That was NOT His plan any more than multiple wives was His plan. His plan was that one man meet one woman, leave the Father and Mother be joined unto each other and become one flesh. That is, they consumate the marriage covenant through the shedding of the blood and the two living together until death. Anything more or less is NOT God's plan- but is a compromise of that plan. Marriage is a blood covenant and carried in the OT all the penalties of breaking a blood covenant.

As a child I remember an old sit com in which the mother was arguing with a daughter over her "moving in" with her boyfriend so she can "try the shoes on before she buys them." Her mother retorted- "Nobody wants to buy a pair of used shoes!"

We can talk about marriage all we want. We can go to seminars and read and write books- but until we we decide it will be 'one pair of shoes', put on once they were actually purchased, laced up and worn for life- we will have nothing but disaster in marriages. God's plan is for one woman and one man to [i]know[/i] each other until death. No one else ever having 'known' them before or after the consummation.

This is Adam and Eve. There were no Adam's before Adam for Eve and there were no Eve's before Eve for Adam. All they knew were each other. Not 700 wives and 300 concubines as with Solomon. Not 30 premarital relationships. No handling the merchandise and putting it back on the shelf. Not 'trying on the shoes' before the commitment was made (they were actually paid for).

I'm sure this will greatly increase my popularity, but as simple as it is- I see no other plan of God in scripture. Anything else is compromise. Anything else is missing the mark. Anyone care to start a series on this at the local church level? :-D

God Bless,

-Robert


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/5/14 19:08Profile









 Re: How about this verse?

1Cr 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

one flesh here sounds like husband and wife to me. So what then consumates a legitimate marriage in God's eyes? Is it not anytime a man joins himself to a woman? Now I have to ask you, how many wives do you have sir? Of course you can ask me the same thing. With my head bowed low, I would have to tell you far too many.

 2005/5/14 21:12
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: 10 wives

Here's an old thread:
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=1289&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Polygamy, Slavery, why was God silent?[/url]


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Mike Balog

 2005/5/14 21:15Profile









 Re: Help! I've got 10 wives!!

What consitutes marriage anyway? "A man that is joined to a harlot is one flesh".

So how does he join himself with her?

The fact of the matter is, western society has a warped sense of the principles of marriage.

People will go out and join with several different partners and then after several years of that decide to settle down.

To whom do you settle down with? The first one that you joined yourself to or another fresh victim that has no idea what they are getting into.

Pastors will ask couples if they have ever been married before, but what they don't ask is have you had sex with others in your past. If yes, how many?

A woman may have had several men before she "settles down" but the man who marries her is marrying a whore, basically.

Someone told me once that when you get saved all that is in the past and is done away with.

Don't get me wrong I agree with him to a degree, you have to understand the conversation we were having.

So I asked him a question, based upon a story.

Let say you had were living common law and through that common law you had a house full of kids. Then Christ found you and you got saved. Old things are passed away, so the kids gotta go and the wife's got to go as well, after all, all things have become new.

I said that because of this, even though your past is forgiven, your still living with these other realities. What is to be done with those things that are now past?

According to the book of Ezra, if you wanted to be apart of the inheritance the strange women and those that were born of you while you were in the world would have to be sent away, because now we are in the land and old things must be done away with.

I know that this sounds far fetched, but what do you do with such a situation. Someone might say, they should get married, well according to Paul that which is joined to a harlot are one flesh, so they are already married, so I ask what constitutes marriage?

Karl

 2005/5/14 22:28
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 types and shadows

I believe God winked , as it were for a time with this sin inorder to show us in these last days how our own hearts looked in His sight when we committ adulatry (worldily lusts) and had ,as it were, multiple wives(GODS). The marriage is a symbol of covenant, therefore anything that is sin that we seek to live with in peace(even a false peace), we have in essence covenanted with and therefore in a type we are married to or in covenant with. ?????What ya think? Bro. Daryl


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D.Miller

 2005/5/14 23:03Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

I agree with your direction, but I would say that whether or not one should leave would be a case by case basis. Paul gave instruction for a Christian that has an unbelieving wife in 1 Corinthians 7:12: "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away."

If the man is converted, he should, by the moral law, not "lay with her" until the are married. I don't think it would be godly to leave just for the sake of conversion, but there may be other factors. As far as Paul speaking of things being done away with, Paul is talking about the way God sees the newly converted soul. The new Christian will want to do right, and can now point all those he exposed to to Christ, and should be doing so. He will now want to make all his crooked places straight. What a fine witness he would be if he turned from all his evil ways in front of all these who knew him, and preached the gospel. Sounds sort of like some bad guys from the Bible that God got ahold of (Joseph, Moses, Samson, Paul, etc).


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Hal Bachman

 2005/5/14 23:51Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

RobertW,

I was going to reply in full, but you pretty much covered it. Agreed, having multiple partners was never God's plan. Look at what happened with Ishmael. Or what about Lot's kids as a result of sleeping with his daughters. Go through Scripture and look at the results of the kids from these situations. Many times you will find curses. Remember this from the ten commandments, "I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers of the children unto the third and fourth generation that hate me." Haven't most of us seen a son that has an addiction that he got from his father. David had a problem with lust (remember his loyal servant Urriah?) that lust passed to his son, Solomon. Lust has always been a deviation of God's plan. To find out God's plan, go to the beginning. "An help meet for him." Notice that it is singular, "an help." Not "many" helps. The word "an" is synonymous with the number one.

Anyway Robert is right. One man and one woman.


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Hal Bachman

 2005/5/15 0:04Profile
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 Re: Fornication or Marriage

Quote:
I know that this sounds far fetched, but what do you do with such a situation. Someone might say, they should get married, well according to Paul that which is joined to a harlot are one flesh, so they are already married, so I ask what constitutes marriage?



If fornication (we call it pre-marital sex) constitutes marriage, then fornication is not sin, but the start of a new covenant.

And what if a virgin first commits fornication with a non-virgin? The non-virgin would be "bound" to the person who they lost their virginity to, since this made them "one flesh."

This begs the question, How many people can be "one flesh" with one another at the same time?

For example, if Jack (virgin) sleeps with Jill (non-virgin), who has slept previously with James (non-virgin), who previously slept with Amy (non-virgin), who previously slept with Joe (non-virgin), who previously slept with...on and on....Are they all one flesh with each other????

Sounds more like an orgy than a marriage. Where am I wrong?

This is gonna be good. ;-)

Blessings,

RT

 2005/5/15 4:07Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: Let not man cast asunder

Quote:

Healingwaters wrote:
What consitutes marriage anyway? "A man that is joined to a harlot is one flesh".



If you read the original design of joining:23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

[b]24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.[/b]

25And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.Genesis 2:23-25KJVYou will notice the order of how the oneness occured. The one flesh occured because of the sanctioning of the first two requirements which validated 'the one flesh' as constituting marraiage.

In those first two: leaving of mother and father and cleaving to his wife it is the transferring of legitamate authourity between the parents to the son and now becoming the head of his particular family.

Look at Jesus' words: Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. [b]What therefore God hath joined together,[/b] let not man put asunder.Matthew 19:6KJV God has to join the marriage for it to be considered 'official' and not man acting out of his own glands.

In regards to where this discussion is headed, even though a man or woman has joined themselves as one flesh, there has not been any legitemate transference of authourity into that relationship. I believe therefore that there is no 'marriage' in the sight of God.

Coming to multiple marriages. We were in Malawi recently and this exact subject came up. One of the comments was that the man was following OT pattern of having multiple wives. First of all any man taking more than one wife is being selfish, because any woman does not want her husbands affections shared with any other. So this man is not fulfilling the law of Christ and causing his sister to stumble.

If you look at how this all started:21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: [b]and he took one of his ribs[/b], and closed up the flesh instead thereof...Genesis 2:21KJVYou will notice that he took one of his ribs not any more. There is not place for more ribs to be joined. When this last point was mentioned it brought rapterous applause from the audience.

In regards to men who have more than one wife. The issue I believe is this. The first covenant stands before God as being legitamate. All the others are not. There simply is not room in Gods economy of marriage for an 'official' marriage that he has sanctioned. So a man must put those wives away and not share the relationship of marraiage with them, but in regards to caring for them and their children that remains his responsibilty. Something along the lines of you made your bed, so sleep in it.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/5/15 6:02Profile





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