SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Have we been Hellenized?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 Re: Another article

Regarding "Theology and the Greek Mindset."

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Hellenism/hellenism.html


_________________
David Winter

 2015/12/10 10:51Profile









 Re:

So, what do you think, David? Have we been Hellenized? Is the "WE", Christendom in general or are you referring to a particular denomination or cult (Catholic Church for instance)?

 2015/12/10 11:14
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 Re: I'll have to think a bit

//So, what do you think, David? Have we been Hellenized? Is the "WE", Christendom in general or are you referring to a particular denomination or cult (Catholic Church for instance)?//

The "WE" would likely refer to Christendom in general. I'm not familar with all the ins and outs of this argument and was hoping someone might be more knoweldgeble than me. I'm reading and trying to find out more precisely what Greek thought was and what it represented verses the Hebrew world view that scripture presents. So I need to do that. From what I've read so far I think the church may be lacking in some areas of course but at the same time has already made tremendous strides against Greek thought and philosophy. Embracing Christ incarnate and revelation unknowable any other way except that God revealed it is part and parcel of the church's belief system and that mitigates against Greek thought and is more in line with the Hebrew prism through whcih God chose to reveal Himself and is seen in the Scriptures. So I need to think for a bit but I'll get back to you. If anything, I believe to a degree that the emphasis on "the kingdom of God is within you" (and is entrely spiritual) and "My kingdom is not of this world" has been misconstrued a bit and has tended to make the Christian hope if not only then largely having to do with another world of higher reality and better than the earthlly when the Hebrew view authored by God brings the two, the earthly and the heavenly, together in a glorious harmony of complementary reality. But like I said, I need to think a bit and will get back to you.


_________________
David Winter

 2015/12/10 16:52Profile









 Re:

I think sometimes we make things a bit too complicated and we can't see the wood for the trees.

In simple terms it is all about the "flesh" and the "spirit" and the one we feed more wins.

Romans 7v.21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

Romans 8v5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace

Let's become "more than conquerors through him who loved us " Rom8v 37

 2015/12/10 18:50









 Re: Further thoughts

docs, that's REALLY good.

 2015/12/11 3:25
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re:


DOCS, very good.

Markuskiwi, thank you for this too!!


_________________
Lisa

 2015/12/11 4:07Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: docs

Hi Docs,

Docs wrote : ///I'm not altogether sure what he means by this and perhaps it can be part of what we discuss.///

I would be interested in knowing where I can read more writings of, or information on the writer of the artical , many red flags come up when I read it.

docs wrote : RE: /// Perhaps those in the early church who didn't want to trust the face simplicity of scripture, because of the Greek/Hellenistic influence in their thinking, begin to seek "private revelation" as to the deeper meaning and eventually the Gnostic movement arose based on secret revelatory knowledge given to only a special view. I'm as curious as you are.///

When we are speaking of the early church and the Greek/Hellenistic influence, are we speaking of Augustine and those that follow after him , or are we including all of the pre nicene writings also ?

Docs wrote: re: /// It has been argued, with a bit of ample persuasion in my opinion, that later Augustine and Thomas Aquinas, both largely influential church patriarchs, tried to meld and synthesize Greek philosophy thinking into their scriptural analysis.../

I feel Augustine influenced the church in many negative ways, just war theory/persecution of the heratics etc. which led to justification of the inquisition.

The crusades the inquisition the persecution of the protasants,anabaptist,quakers,jews etc. would have never happened if such doctrine (which was unheard of for 300 years prior) would have never entered christendom.

Pelagius accused Augustines original sin / sinful nature concept to have been derived from his gnostic past.(a hellenized concept)

The idea that man is born intrinsically evil, I neither find biblical nor clear reality.

Children are born naked and unaware: that is to say innocent versus being born intrinsically evil.

 2015/12/11 9:07Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 For neigiln1

So bro, if you are inclined, you don't have to, what stuck out to you? I'm learning a little more each time I have been reading on this but would be interested in what you saw that may have stood out.

Thank you and everyone.


_________________
David Winter

 2015/12/11 9:35Profile









 Re: Have we been Hellenized?

Quote:
by docs on 2015/12/9 12:08:03

This was written by a Jewish Messianic believer. I'm not pushing Jewish Messianic believers per say. It could have just as well been written by a Gentile believer but it has enough meat in it that I thought I would offer it for what it's worth. Comments welcome if you are inclined.



Did I miss who the writer of this was? I would also like to read more of his writings to get a better picture of where he is coming from. I have never seen this viewpoint, before.

Only other place I found this article is here. docs, you are getting more feedback on SI, but who is the author?
http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.php?247541-Have-we-been-Hellenized

 2015/12/11 9:46
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 For Julius

//Did I miss who the writer of this was? I would also like to read more of his writings to get a better picture of where he is coming from. I have never seen this viewpoint, before.//

The author is a Jewish believer in Christ named Tom is all I know. A somewhat casual acquaintance of mine received this article from his friend and then he shared it with several people on a mailing list in which we correspond with each other from time to time. He openly shared it with us and I liked the article (though not understanding it all) so I thought I would share it here and try and get some feedback I'm still learning. As far as I can determine the author has no website that I know of but was just writing to a friend of his.

I don't believe this subject is new at all and has been discussed and written about and debated for a pretty long while. It's not a shallow subject I'm finding.


_________________
David Winter

 2015/12/11 10:30Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy