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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A Strange Narrative from 1st Kings

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5346
NC, USA

 A Strange Narrative from 1st Kings

1 Kings 22:19-23 Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left. And the Lord said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’ The Lord said to him, ‘In what way?’ So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the Lord said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’ Therefore look! The Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the Lord has declared disaster against you.”

I heard this passage yesterday in my listening through the Bible project. I am interested in y'all's thoughts regarding this enigmatic passage. It is somewhat reminiscent of Job 1.

What is unclear to me is whether we are to take this literally; I.e does God really have consultations with demons to see which one can best suit His purposes.


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Todd

 2015/12/9 8:15Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re: A Strange Narrative from 1st Kings

IDK if those should be understood as demon spirits. But, as to consultations, etc., I've run across a fellow whose teaching is interesting on "the divine council". Some of it is interesting, some is just elaboration on simple known things, some things make you go, "hmm, I hadn't thought of that" but also seem right.

Anyway, you can look him up on YouTube. His name is Michael Heiser. He is the academic editor for the Logos Bible software, a Bob Jones U. grad (so you don't get the idea he comes from a kooky background).


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Tim

 2015/12/9 8:50Profile









 Re:

This may help you round out your exegesis.

Jdg 9:23 THEN GOD SENT AN EVIL SPIRIT between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

2Th 2:11 And for this cause GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie:

Isa 66:4 I WILL ALSO CHOOSE THEIR DELUSIONS, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Rev 17:17 FOR GOD HATH PUT IN THEIR HEARTS TO FULFILL HIS WILL, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

There are many reasons that God has called us not to walk by sight and war in the flesh. You could actually be working against Him. Whatever happens in the physical realm is a test to see if we will walk after the Spirit or after the flesh if we will look to Christ or look to man (ourselves).

 2015/12/9 9:16
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5346
NC, USA

 Re:

Tim-

Funny you should mention Michael Heiser. Smart guy. I just started listening to his podcasts- right now he is going through Leviticus. Interesting stuff.

Julius- thanks. It does seem that God does use evil spirits to suit his purposes. Perhaps the question is- why do they want to help? Then again they may have no choice.


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Todd

 2015/12/9 9:39Profile









 Re:

I think they are DRIVEN to do evil (pure evil) and held back by God and only able to act (as we see in Job), as God allows them to. They are more than happy to kill, steal and destroy as God allows it. There is not an ounce of mercy or love in them. To a certain degree men allow them power in their own lives, also by opening themselves through sin and disobedience and alienation from God. But, still they can only do as much as God allows. They don't have unfettered access even to unbelievers else the whole world of unbelievers would be destroyed, instantly. (God's blessings rain on the just and unjust, alike). When I got saved, I realize looking back into my past how God protected me from a total onslaught of demonic powers. I was attacked by many, but not destroyed. This was God's grace and protection while I was alienated from Him.

Remember, Jesus even told Pilate, "Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." (John 19:11)

God the Father gave Satan "power" over His own Son.

Also, remember, the "steps of the righteous are ordered by the Lord". Corrie Ten Boom's sister (Betsie) and her Father had great wisdom and were able to acquit themselves with much grace in the face of pure evil. But, God allowed Betsie and Corrie to be put in a concentration camp as a witness of His light and love. He also allowed their "Papa" to die in prison. In God, "IT's ALL GOOD" for the Believer.

 2015/12/9 10:09
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5346
NC, USA

 Re:

The funny thing about the Kings passage is it seems God is asking the demons for the best plan; in a sense he was asking for volunteers.

Perhaps this is the prophet "anthropomorphing" what actually occurred when he revealed his vision.


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Todd

 2015/12/9 10:29Profile









 Re:

And on Job, it seems like He was negotiating with Satan. Of course the Lord is always in control and is always just in all His ways.

 2015/12/9 10:49
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7452
Mississippi

 Re:

Then you have the incident where God hardened the heart of Pharaoh, remember? Doing so will ensure that he will disregard Moses requests for allowing the Children of Israel to leave Egypt peaceably.

As I understand this scripture, God knew Pharaoh would never follow him, love Him so He chose to put him in a position where He (God) could use him to demonstrate his power, his might via of the plagues. In other words, in God's economy nobody, nothing goes to waste. God will use all to bring honor and glory to himself.

God is the master chess player! He will move, use evil people to to provide a platform upon which he will play out his mercy and grace. And...He apparently will use the devil at times to accomplish this end.

God is awesome!

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2015/12/9 11:12Profile









 Re:

We have to remember that when Joseph was attacked by his brethren and put into the pit, he was in the Lord's will. Daniel was in the Lord's will in the Lion's den, Meshach, Shadrach and Abednego were in the Lord's will in the fiery furnace, all the prophets killed by the "children of Abraham" (after the flesh) were in the Lord's will. Jesus was in the Lord's will on the cross and all the apostles that died cruel deaths were in the Lord's will. ("Don't be surprised if they persecute you, they persecuted Me, first" John 15:20)

And most important of all, we cannot learn of God and His ways if we do not embrace the cross. His ways as we have seen in the beforementioned lives, do not operated apart from the cross.

Mat_11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

"take my yoke upon you and learn of me", is very much like "take up his cross, and follow me.

The Lord's yoke was His Father's will and our yoke is the Lord's will. And the cross is at the center point of God's will. We cannot walk after the Spirit without the operation of the cross in our lives.

Does the Lord use Satan to bring hardship into our lives and test us? The scriptures are clear as the previous posts elucidate.

Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Though we may encounter Romans 8:35 in our lives, we have all we need to overcome all the power of the Enemy and in the final analysis, (whatever it is for our lives), we can still STAND in FAITH just as our Lord showed us by example and many more have shown us through the centuries.

Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.



 2015/12/9 11:57
SHMILY
Member



Joined: 2009/12/13
Posts: 185
Northern Idaho

 Re: A Strange Narrative from 1st Kings

This reminds me of Isaiah 6:8:

And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” Then I said, “Here I am! Send me.”

I believe in both instances He already knew the answer. He waited for them to volunteer. ;)

REJOICE! =)
Mary

 2015/12/9 14:21Profile





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