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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : And What of Certain Old Testanent Prophesies Concerning Israel?

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 And What of Certain Old Testanent Prophesies Concerning Israel?

Psalm 83:4-8

They have said, "Come and let us wipe them out as a nation,
That the sons of Israel be remembered no more."
For they have conspired together with one mind;
Against You they have made a covenant;
The tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
Moab and the Hagrites,
Gebal and Ammon and Amakek,
Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre;
Assyria has also joined with them;
They have become a help to the children of lot.

Saints has this Psalm already been fulfilled. Or is it yet to be fulfilled? If there is a future fulfillment involved. Then I do not think that you can write all the present day nation of Israel.

Just my thoughts. Wondering what the rest of the forum thinks.








 2015/11/23 8:09
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: And What of Psalm 83

Hi Bear,

The early Church believed that : 'there is only one Israel of God—comprised of both Jews and Gentiles'

I want to recommend to you "My Beloved Israel" By Steve Yoder a recommendation of David Bercot of Scroll Publishing :


"Steve Yoder. In this well-researched book, Yoder discusses the Old and New Testament prophecies about Israel. He sets forth and defends the prophetic view held by the early Christians, the Anabaptists, the Reformers, and in fact all Christians before the 19th century. He describes the persecution of the Jewish people by “Christian” governments and their inhuman treatment by Hitler. He also explains the history of the Zionist movement that led to the creation of the modern state of Israel. He argues that there is only one Israel of God—comprised of both Jews and Gentiles who are children of Abraham through their faith in Christ.
272 pp. Hardback."

http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/product3404.html

 2015/11/23 9:26Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Matthew Henry on Psalm 83 1-8

"Sometimes God seems not to be concerned at the unjust treatment of his people. But then we may call upon him, as the psalmist here. All wicked people are God's enemies, especially wicked persecutors. The Lord's people are his hidden one; the world knows them not. He takes them under his special protection. Do the enemies of the church act with one consent to destroy it, and shall not the friends of the church be united? Wicked men wish that there might be no religion among mankind. They would gladly see all its restraints shaken off, and all that preach, profess, or practise it, cut off. This they would bring to pass if it were in their power. The enemies of God's church have always been many: this magnifies the power of the Lord in preserving to himself a church in the world."

 2015/11/23 10:04Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2730
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: And What of Psalm 83

Quote:
They have said, "Come and let us wipe them out as a nation, That the sons of Israel be remembered no more."
For they have conspired together with one mind;
Against You they have made a covenant;.



I will not get wrapped up in the national Israel debate that seems to be flooding this forum of late however there is a principle from the verse quoted above that applies to every generation of God's people.

The world hates God's people, it cannot abide their existence, the seed of Satan will ever choose to "wipe them out." But we can take much hope from that Psalm because all those nations that were conspiring against Israel are no more, yet Israel still exists!

Why do the heathen rage? He that sits in heaven shall laugh at them.

Praise the name of the Lord our God!

In Christ,


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2015/11/23 10:56Profile









 Re:

Paul did not shrink back from defending the Word of God and the Enemy made sure he paid a terrible, temporal price for it, and still he would not cower and retreat. We should not make an important portion of the scriptures off limits because people are offended with the truth. That is tantamount to Christian Sharia law. Paul says the Israel of God are the circumcised in heart. There is no other Israel of God. (I did not say there is no other Israel). So, yes Blane, Psalm 83 has been fulfilled in Christ and is being fulfilled in Christ.

The people of God are those who have made Him their habitation. In Him is where we live. He is the "good land." Proudpapa made a good recommendation regarding Steve Yoder's work.

 2015/11/23 11:35









 Re:

Brothers I am aware that all prophecy is fulfilled in Christ. I'm also aware that The Bride of Christ consisting of both Jew and Gentile will be for whom Christ returns.

I have posted on this forum in times past my New Covenant view of Scripture. I believe that we are guided primarily by the New Testament Scriptures. However certain brethren have challenged me to rethink my views regarding Old Testament prophecies. Prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled.

One such prophecy I think is found in Psalm 83. When one reads this Psalm it reads pretty much like today's headlines. I cannot help but think that national Israel will play a prominent part in the return of Christ.

The Psalm for an example mentions the Edomites. These are descendants of the Persians. Today Itan is considered old Persia. The Supreme Leader of Iran, the Ayatollah Khomeini, has made threatening remarks regarding Israel. To summarize these remarks would be that Iran will wipe Israel off the face of the map. Seems very similar to the Psalm on saying come let us wipe them out as a nation. I cannot help but wonder if this is being fulfilled today toward the nation of Israel.

Psalm 83 also mentions the Ishmaelites. These are descendants of the modern Arabs. Can anybody in the forum deny that the Arabs in the Middle East would love to see Israel wiped off the face of the map. Again I cannot help but think that this is being fulfilled today.

Simply brother some thoughts for consideration.



 2015/11/23 12:25









 Re:

I have retitle the thread. Because I think there are other Old Testament prophecies regarding Israel that should be looked at.

Again can we dismiss the role of Israel as a nation in in time events?

 2015/11/23 12:28
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2021
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

As I was trying to reason in another thread, when it comes to Old Testament prophecies, there are both physical fulfillments of them as well as spiritual fulfillments of them in Christ. In each case we must consider seriously both the literary and historical contexts.

Regarding the question proposed in the OP, we must consider the fact that the Psalms were written during the time of king David, hundreds of years before both the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities of national Israel and their return and restoration afterwards.

In this particular Psalm the Psalmist is lamenting that the enemies of national Israel and of God's people are threatening to completely wipe them out. During this time it was not God's plan for national Israel to be completely judged by Him as was the case in AD 70.

Quote:
One such prophecy I think is found in Psalm 83. When one reads this Psalm it reads pretty much like today's headlines. I cannot help but think that national Israel will play a prominent part in the return of Christ.

The Psalm for an example mentions the Edomites. These are descendants of the Persians. Today Itan is considered old Persia. The Supreme Leader of Iran, the Ayatollah Khomeini, has made threatening remarks regarding Israel. To summarize these remarks would be that Iran will wipe Israel off the face of the map. Seems very similar to the Psalm on saying come let us wipe them out as a nation. I cannot help but wonder if this is being fulfilled today toward the nation of Israel.

Psalm 83 also mentions the Ishmaelites. These are descendants of the modern Arabs. Can anybody in the forum deny that the Arabs in the Middle East would love to see Israel wiped off the face of the map. Again I cannot help but think that this is being fulfilled today.



I don’t see any need for us to conclude that this refers to any of today’s Middle-Eastern nations. All these nations mentioned in this Psalm existed during the time of the penning of it. I think it’s a stretch to try to make this out to be more than a lamenting of the threats by these nations during the time the Psalmist penned these words.

That being said, spiritually we can apply it to today’s threats by the Enemy to wipe out the Church, the remnant people of God, the seed of Abraham (Gal. 3:29), the Israel of God (Gal. 6:16). God has always had and will always have a Church, a people for the praises of His name.


_________________
Oracio

 2015/11/23 12:45Profile





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