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 Is National Israel God’s Chosen And Holy Nation?

I believe this is such an important topic and I was thinking the other day, why should we not be able to have reasoned conversation without being bullied and labeled with venomous and hateful words? And do others resort to such conduct because they are afraid of the truth or maybe they are unable to reason from the Scriptures their point of view?

Does it make any difference that many look to physical Israel for Biblical fulfillment while others look to spiritual Israel? Is it unimportant? Does it really not matter that some look to the natural world while others are looking at the spiritual state of things?

I believe if we look to the natural for the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy, the Church will be deceived. And that the Church must stop looking to national Israel for the fulfillment of biblical prophecy concerning the new covenant era. The Church is the Israel of the new covenant. Paul says, we are "THE ISRAEL OF GOD". That seems awfully synonymous to "SPIRITUAL ISRAEL".

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 AND AS MANY AS WALK ACCORDING TO THIS RULE, PEACE BE ON THEM, AND MERCY, AND UPON THE ISRAEL OF GOD." (Gal 6:15-16)

What "rule" is Paul speaking of? The rule of "being a new creature in Christ", where circumcision is not of the flesh but of the heart.

I may be wrong but the Scriptures seem to teach that Biblical prophecy relating to the new covenant era is about spiritual Israel, not national Israel. It is about the true and false, or apostate Christians, not true or false national Israelites. The testimony of the scriptures is clear about them during the new covenant era.

Matt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Prophecy concerning God's people is no longer about national Israel, but rather spiritual Israel, which is composed of all those of every race and nation who claim to be Christ's own.

It is difficult at best to get around Joshua 21:43-45. All the promises relating to physical land and other matters were fulfilled under Joshua, but because of the Jews’ continual and chronic rebellion against God, "He amputated all of the land He had given them during the Roman/Jewish war of 67-70 A. D." Let it be noted that God never promised to give Israel land, or anything else, BUT ON THE CONDITION OF OBEDIENCE.

"And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein. And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand. There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass." (Jos 21:43-45)

Not Finished Yet
"But is God finished with Jews as a race? Absolutely not! No more than He is finished with Gentiles as a race. God has not forsaken Jews or Gentiles. He wants all of them to come to His Son for deliverance and salvation. My entire thrust in this feature has been that He is finished with the Jews as a holy people and nation or as a religious and political state. We ought to accept the reality that God has only one “Israel” today, and she is the family or one body of believers." (Eph. 4:4).

All believers, regardless of race, are the children of Abraham (Gal. 3:7, 26-29).
All believers, regardless of race, are God’s chosen children (Eph. 1:3-6, Titus 2:11-14).
All believers, regardless of race, are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, “a people belonging to God” (1 Peter 2:9).
All believers, regardless of race, are the temple of God (1 Cor. 3:16, 2 Cor. 6:16).
All believers, regardless of race, are currently in God’s spiritual kingdom or reign (Col. 1:13-14).
All believers, regardless of race, are called the circumcision (Phil. 3:3).
All believers, regardless of race, are called Jerusalem, the Holy City, the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:2-12).

The Whole Matter In A Nut Shell
If Old Jerusalem has been replaced by New Jerusalem (grace era or Christian system); if the Old Temple has been replaced by the New Temple; if the Old Priesthood has been superseded by the priesthood of all believers; if the Old Sacrifices were succeeded by the Perfect Sacrifice; if physical circumcision was replaced by spiritual circumcision (of the heart); and if New Israel (the Christian community) replaced Old Israel, then...Why would God, at some future date, restore the old carnal regulations and practices when something far better, with transcendent promises, has arrived? God has made everything new! The new order eclipses the old regulations and practices, which were only shadows of the good things to come (Heb. 10:1).

To put it another way, why would God return to the Old after having created the New? This would be regression, not progression. Or, why would God retreat by reinstating the carnal when He has resurrected the spiritual? Why would any believer want to surrender his spiritual status in this new age and return to the carnal, external, and legalistic arrangement under Moses—a system that was incapable of abolishing sins? Well, why?

For more: http://www.mindspring.com/~renewal/Israel.html

 2015/11/21 14:41
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2042


 Re: Is National Israel God’s Chosen And Holy Nation?

Question: Is National Israel God’s Chosen And Holy Nation?

Answer: Absolutely Not!

To you therefore who believe he is precious: but to them who are disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense, even to them who stumble at the word, being disobedient: to which also they were appointed.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

Who in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: who had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:7-10

 2015/11/21 18:11Profile









 Re:

Here a little to truth to counteract the lies about God's dealings with Israel

Jeremiiah 33
6 Behold, I will bring it health and cure; and I will cure them and will reveal unto them the abundance of peace and truth.

7 And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to cease, and will build them as at the first.

8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity whereby they have sinned against Me; and I will pardon all their iniquities whereby they have sinned and whereby they have transgressed against Me.

9 And it shall be to Me a name of joy, a praise and an honorbefore all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them; and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I provide unto it.’

10 “Thus saith the Lord: ‘Again there shall be heard in this place (which ye say shall be desolate, without man and without beast, even in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem that are desolate, without man and without inhabitant and without beast),

11 the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, “Praise the Lord of hosts, for the Lord is good; for His mercy endureth for ever”—and of those who shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the Lord. For I will cause to return the captives of the land, as at the first,’ saith the Lord.

12 “Thus saith the Lord of hosts: ‘Again in this place which is desolate, without man and without beast, and in all the cities thereof shall be a habitation of shepherds causing their flocks to lie down.

13 In the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the vale, and in the cities of the South, and in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, shall the flocks pass again under the hands of him that counteth them,’ saith the Lord.

14 “‘Behold, the days come,’ saith the Lord, ‘that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.

 2015/11/21 20:08









 Re:

Jer 33:14 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.


And what is the "good thing" that God promised but Jesus the Messiah, Himself.

"In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and JERUSALEM SHALL DWELL SAFELY: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness." (Jer 33:15-16)

Jerusalem above now dwells safely in Christ. She (the Church) is the only one that "shall be called, "The Lord our righteousness", for the Lord is her righteousness!

And the Israel of God, now dwells safely in Christ.

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and ISRAEL SHALL DWELL SAFELY: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jer 23:5-6)

Who calls and declares the LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS but the CHURCH of Jesus Christ, only!

 2015/11/21 20:17









 Re:

A little more truth from Jeremiah 33

25 Thus saith the Lord: ‘If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth,

26 then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; for I will cause their captivity to cease, and have mercy on them.’”

 2015/11/21 20:22









 Re:

Jeremiah 32

37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries whither I have driven them in Mine anger and in My fury and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely.

38 And they shall be My people, and I will be their God;

39 and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me for ever, for the good of them and of their children after them.

40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from Me.

41 Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with My whole heart and with My whole soul.

42 “For thus saith the Lord: As I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.

43 And fields shall be bought in this land whereof ye say, ‘It is desolate without man or beast. It is given into the hand of the Chaldeans.’

44 Men shall buy fields for money, and sign evidences and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley and in the cities of the South; for I will cause their captives to return, saith the Lord.”

 2015/11/21 20:24









 Re:

The Old Testament is full of types of the "land", "city", "country", "dwelling place" and "habitation" that we dwell in now and are spoken of in the New Testament as Jesus Christ and His Body. You cannot separate the two, for they are one and they represent every nation and kindred and tongue.

Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD. AND MANY NATIONS SHALL BE JOINED TO THE LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee. (Zec 2:10-11)

In whom ye also are builded together for an HABITATION OF GOD through the Spirit. (Eph 2:22)

The Lord is our habitation.

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to an innumerable company of angels, (Heb 12:22)


FOR IN HIM WE LIVE AND MOVE, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. (Act 17:28)


Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (Jer 31:31-32)

It is important that the Church makes natural Israel jealous and that they are grafted back into the Vine. But, what seems to be happening today, is that natural Israel is making the Church jealous and causing the Church to be like them for the Church is adopting Old Testament ways.

 2015/11/21 21:59
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

The prophecies in Jeremiah concerning a physical return of national Israel from physical captivity were fulfilled in the time of Ezra and Nehemiah after the 70 years of Babylonian captivity.

Quote:
Jeremiah 32

37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries whither I have driven them in Mine anger and in My fury and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely.

38 And they shall be My people, and I will be their God;

39 and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me for ever, for the good of them and of their children after them.

40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from Me.

41 Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with My whole heart and with My whole soul.

42 “For thus saith the Lord: As I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.

43 And fields shall be bought in this land whereof ye say, ‘It is desolate without man or beast. It is given into the hand of the Chaldeans.’

44 Men shall buy fields for money, and sign evidences and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley and in the cities of the South; for I will cause their captives to return, saith the Lord.”



Ah, but let’s consider the verses immediately preceding those verses to get the context and meaning:

"28 Therefore thus says the Lord: 'Behold, I will give this city into the hand of the Chaldeans, into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and he shall take it.

29 And the Chaldeans who fight against this city shall come and set fire to this city and burn it, with the houses on whose roofs they have offered incense to Baal and poured out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke Me to anger;

30 because the children of Israel and the children of Judah have done only evil before Me from their youth. For the children of Israel have provoked Me only to anger with the work of their hands,' says the Lord.

31 'For this city has been to Me a provocation of My anger and My fury from the day that they built it, even to this day; so I will remove it from before My face

32 because of all the evil of the children of Israel and the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke Me to anger--they, their kings, their princes, their priests, their prophets, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

33 And they have turned to Me the back, and not the face; though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not listened to receive instruction.

34But they set their abominations in the house which is called by My name, to defile it.

35 And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

36 Now therefore, thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning this city of which you say, 'It shall be delivered into the hand of the king of Babylon by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence:”


_________________
Oracio

 2015/11/21 23:25Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Jeremiiah 33
6 Behold, I will bring it health and cure; and I will cure them and will reveal unto them the abundance of peace and truth.

7 And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to cease, and will build them as at the first.

8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity whereby they have sinned against Me; and I will pardon all their iniquities whereby they have sinned and whereby they have transgressed against Me.

9 And it shall be to Me a name of joy, a praise and an honorbefore all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them; and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I provide unto it.’

10 “Thus saith the Lord: ‘Again there shall be heard in this place (which ye say shall be desolate, without man and without beast, even in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem that are desolate, without man and without inhabitant and without beast),

11 the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, “Praise the Lord of hosts, for the Lord is good; for His mercy endureth for ever”—and of those who shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the Lord. For I will cause to return the captives of the land, as at the first,’ saith the Lord.

12 “Thus saith the Lord of hosts: ‘Again in this place which is desolate, without man and without beast, and in all the cities thereof shall be a habitation of shepherds causing their flocks to lie down.

13 In the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the vale, and in the cities of the South, and in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, shall the flocks pass again under the hands of him that counteth them,’ saith the Lord.

14 “‘Behold, the days come,’ saith the Lord, ‘that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.



Again, we must consider the preceding verses to get the fuller context and meaning:

“1 Moreover the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah a second time, while he was still shut up in the court of the prison, saying,

2 "Thus says the Lord who made it, the Lord who formed it to establish it (the Lord is His name):

3 'Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.'

4 "For thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning the houses of this city and the houses of the kings of Judah, which have been pulled down to fortify against the siege mounds and the sword:

5 'They come to fight with the Chaldeans, but only to fill their places with the dead bodies of men whom I will slay in My anger and My fury, all for whose wickedness I have hidden My face from this city.”

So again, the physical aspects of this prophecy were fulfilled after the 70 years of Babylonian captivity during the time of Ezra and Nehemiah. But the spiritual aspects were fulfilled with the first Coming of Jesus Christ as seen clearly in verses 15 and 16 which Julius already pointed out.


_________________
Oracio

 2015/11/21 23:45Profile









 Re:

Very good points, Oracio.

What really interests me is what will be the fruit of those in the church both in attitude and actions that look to physical Israel for the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy?

Many say persecution is coming. Will Christians who believe in carnal warfare be part of the company of men that persecute the Israel of God (Gal 6:16)?

 2015/11/22 1:14





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