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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Is It Possible to Reform the Religious System?

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 Re:. Something about new wine into old wineskins

Brothers seems to me Jesus had something to say on reform in church systems.......

Luke 5:36-39

No one tears a piece of cloth from a new garment and puts it on an old garment; otherwise he will both tear the new, and the piece from the new will not match the old. And no one puts new wine into old wineskins, otherwise the new wine will burst the skins and it will be spilled out, and the skins will be ruined. But the new wine must be put into fresh wineskins. And no one after drinking old wine wishes for new, for he says, "The old is good enough".

Simply my thoughts.

 2015/11/22 8:42









 Re:

It seems to me the question is more fundamental that can you reform a church system or denomination. Aside from the fact that is has never been done and I say no it cannot be done, the fundamental question should be " Are they Biblical?"

If they are not Gods will in the first place, then why would He be in the business of reforming them? God reforms and transforms people not systems designed by men in violation of Scripture...............bro Frank

 2015/11/22 9:54









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Agree Frank. God is transforming hearts. Not structures. The heart of the believer us where Jesus dwells. Not a structure.

 2015/11/22 10:17









 Re:

Agreed. Anyone trying to reform a system will run into a brick wall or even persecution.

 2015/11/22 11:19
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Again brethren, I think that for many of us, the reality is that we have no choice but to fellowship in traditional church settings (or else not fellowship at all) even though we do see some things in these settings that are not that conducive to New Testament patterns of fellowship. Personally, if I knew of a vibrant house fellowship near me I don’t think I’d hesitate much to join it. From hearing certain testimonies online, I do believe that there are some good house fellowships out there, but I have not been fortunate enough to live near enough to them.

There was a time when I was looking around for that type of fellowship in my area. I visited a few house churches, but in all honesty, I found that they were just as dead as, or more so than many denominational churches. Their meetings were more participatory, so in that sense they were more patterned after New Testament meetings, but the members were just as worldly as many in the traditional churches. And they did not have a heart to reach out to the lost, just like many who are simply pew warmers in traditional churches. Also, many had this critical, bitter spirit toward the traditional churches and that’s all they seemed to dwell on. It wasn't a pretty picture.

After that I figured I’d try to start a fellowship in my home but that didn’t work either. I put my contact info on a house church network website and did receive a few calls and had a few visits. But again, these people who came were too focused on the things that are wrong in the traditional churches and they had no heart to reach out to the lost. And one thing led to another and my whole endeavor crumbled and came to naught.

So again, I was left with the decision of what to do in terms of fellowship, and decided to look at this issue of traditional churches as non-essential to salvation (as I’m sure many here would agree it is despite disliking traditional churches), and decided to try to find the most solid one near me to fellowship at.

So I basically recommend to believers who don’t have a place where they fellowship to try to find the most solid church near them (because it’s not good to be a lone Christian), whether it’s a traditional church or house church.

Just my thoughts.


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Oracio

 2015/11/22 12:06Profile









 Re:

Oracio,

Be encouraged, brother. It only takes one other piece of iron to sharpen another piece and Jesus said, "where two or more are gathered in my name, I am in the midst of them". Just one other person who is "valiant for the truth", is such a gift from the Lord. I know how you feel, because I have been there (Jer. 9:1-4). But, the good news is that the Author of "new life" lives in you.

I know you are a street preacher so I will pray that you lead someone to the Lord and then you will have fellowship. You can then begin to sow into their life all that God has revealed to you. I was told once in my early days that "wherever you go, if you can't find fellowship, make it". Meaning, preach the gospel and lead someone to the Lord.

This happened to me one time. I was brought into a place for a season where there was no fellowship around me and one by one over the next two years, 8 guys came to the Lord. I have to say it is easier to teach new converts than to get the older ones to see beyond their ingrained, denominational mindset. They have found a "security" in what is "known" to them, and are fearful of deviating.

 2015/11/22 12:43
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Thanks for that encouragement Julius. I have found that many people out there on the streets (whether it's lost souls that are being seriously convicted of their sin and of their need for Christ, or new believers) are way too accustomed to traditional church settings; and that it's very hard to get them to see a gathering in a home of two or three as a real church. It's as if they think you belong to some weird cult when you try to encourage them to see church like that. The traditional way of "doing church" is really ingrained in them.

I noticed that type of thing when I was trying to do house church in my home and I used to encourage people out on the streets to visit. They would ask me where I went to church, and as soon as I told them I met in my home with a few other believers they looked at me like I'm from Mars. But I know that with God nothing is impossible. I guess I simply lost heart and gave up after not really seeing any fruit in terms of the house church thing. So again, now a days I don't take that issue that seriously as I used to.

This is the thing for me, if a traditional church has solid preaching and teaching where the Body is being fed the pure, uncompromised Word of God; and if they have a heart to reach out to their community with the gospel; and if they encourage fellowship and meetings in one another's homes on days when the "traditional meetings" are not happening, I think it's a healthy place to be despite certain other things which they may lack in.


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Oracio

 2015/11/22 13:04Profile









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Well, I will say that if people have valuable, edifying relationships they should stick with them and only do as the Lord leads.

 2015/11/22 13:06









 Re:

Oracio I can relate to what you are saying. A vibrant house church is more dedirable. But in absence of that a silid traditional church would be good. But unfortunately in my area a house church or solid traditional church is lacking.

 2015/11/22 13:34
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2037
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I hear you Bear. In that case, unfortunately one has no choice but to trust in and wait on the Lord to bring a good fellowship in one's path. Yeah, I would not recommend just joining any dead, apostate type of traditional church either. Hang in their brother. Will pray.


_________________
Oracio

 2015/11/22 13:47Profile





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