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 Re:

docs,

You are absolutely right. As I was writing those verses in Deuteronomy, I realized they don't even apply to the land today, but wanted to point out that they were taken out of context and proudpapa also note that. Only through Jesus Christ, can anyone receive the blessing of Abraham and all the promises to Abraham, (who was "looking for a city whose builder and maker was God") are fulfilled in Christ.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

The question I think we are going to grapple with is whether God has two people and two covenants and two plans and some promises are found outside of Christ or does He just have one people and one covenant.

I will go ahead and start the new thread, as I know that Oracio is bit "covered over" right now.

 2015/11/2 8:34
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2156


 Re: Good morning Julius

You are absolutely right. As I was writing those verses in Deuteronomy, I realized they don't even apply to the land today, but wanted to point out that they were taken out of context and proudpapa also note that. Only through Jesus Christ, can anyone receive the blessing of Abraham and all the promises to Abraham, (who was "looking for a city whose builder and maker was God") are fulfilled in Christ.

Doc: Why wouldn't they apply to the land today since God is not finished with Israel yet?

30 When you are in distress and all these things have come upon you, in the latter days, you will return to the Lord your God and listen to His voice. (Deut 4:30)

5 Afterward the sons of Isarel will return and seek the Lord thier God and David thier king; and they will come trembling to the L;ord and His goodness in the last days. (Hosea 3:5)

Moses prophesied of tribulation for Israel that would continue even into the last days of the age. And Hosea said this distress would cause them to come trembling to the Lord in the last days. It hasn't happened yet so we can look for a future fulfillment.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Doc: Being in Christ would give a regathered remnant in the land the inward moral ability to obey God and assure possession of the land. What glory will God get if Israel is left dertitute and wandering in the nations? It could then be said God brought them out but couldn't bring them in. The passage of time has not altered God's plan one bit.

The question I think we are going to grapple with is whether God has two people and two covenants and two plans and some promises are found outside of Christ or does He just have one people and one covenant.

Well, I've already made clear I don't believe this nor a pre-trib rapture that is suppposedly to signal the end of God's dealings with one redeemed community of saints and beginning another dealing with another separate group of the redeemed. Nope! I believe God has ONE people and ONE covenant and ONE plan. It's not wrong to divide the natural seed of Abraham from the believing spiritual seed but is anathema to God's overall redemptive plan to divide the believing seed of Abraham into two peoples.


_________________
David Winter

 2015/11/2 9:08Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Doc: Why wouldn't they apply to the land today since God is not finished with Israel yet?



We have to define what is meant by "God is not finished with Israel yet". So, I do believe Romans.

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Gentiles did not come into the Church until about 15 years (Cornelius) after the birth. And there was the whole Acts 15 Council at Jerusalem controversy and then mutual understanding regarding the Gentiles.

God has been adding to the remnant of Israel in every century.

How about we go over to the other thread?

 2015/11/2 9:18









 Re: A little more eternal truth

There is a promise in the bible that rings out almost louder than all the others. And that is God's Promise to, in the End of Time, return the Jews to the very Homeland that they were drivenout of in 70 AD by the Romans. All through Scripture it sounds out loud and clear:

"And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be
left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from
Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." Isaiah 11:10-12

Thank you Lord Jesus that no one can stop your eternal plan for your people.

 2015/11/2 11:31









 Re: Whew! That is some pretty bad stuff, Enue.

Your colors are showing Julius21 and it ain't pretty.
You obvious and despicable defence of the haters of Israel
such as Steven Sizer as Rev has pointed out are inexcusable.

 2015/11/2 11:36









 Re: The Land of Canaan, renamed Israel by the Lord, was given by God to Abraham and his descendants

"The Land of Canaan, renamed Israel by the Lord, was given by God to Abraham and his descendants as an everlasting possession.

In Genesis 12:7a, we read: "The Lord appeared to Abram and said, 'To your descendants I will give this land.'"

In Genesis 13:15, He repeated His promise when He said, "for all the land which you see, I will give it to you and to your descendants forever." He said the same thing in Genesis 15:18, "To your descendants I have given this land."

Key #2: The gift of this Land to Abraham and his descendants was based on an unconditional covenant from God Himself.

Genesis 17:7-8 states: "And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. And I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojourning, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

The sign of that covenant for Abraham and his descendants was circumcision. Twice in this passage, God mentions the everlasting nature of this covenant. There are some today who say that this covenant was conditional, that it was based on Israel's faithfulness to God. The Bible teaches otherwise.

In Psalm 89:30-37, we read: "If his sons forsake My law, and do not walk in My judgments, if they violate My statues, and do not keep My commandments, then I will visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. But I will not break off My loving kindness from him, nor deal falsely in My faithfulness. My covenant I will not violate, nor will I alter the utterance of My lips. Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David. His descendants shall endure forever like the moon, and the witness in the sky is faithful."

Jeremiah 31:35-36 declares: "This is what the Lord says, 'He who appoints the sun to shine by day, Who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar -- the Lord Almighty is His Name; Only if these ordinances vanish from My sight,' declares the Lord, 'will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before Me.'"

We agree that God promised to judge His people if they disobeyed Him. That is true for all of us. However, we do not agree with those who say that Israel's disobedience would forfeit their gift of the land and their national status as a people. Deuteronomy 28 shows that God's pronouncement of blessing and cursing only affected the quality of life of the Israelites, which was conditional upon their faithfulness. However, the promise of the land was not based upon Israel's performance, but upon God's oath and character -- He will not lie.

Deuteronomy 30 shows that before they even entered the Promised Land, He knew they would violate His statutes and be evicted in a future day. Yet it also declares that He would bring them back into the land He had given their forefathers "

Excellent commentary

 2015/11/2 11:42









 Re:

Quote:
by Notdarkyet on 2015/11/2 11:36:49

Your colors are showing Julius21 and it ain't pretty.
You obvious are despicable defence of the haters of Israel
such as Steven Sizer as Rev has pointed out are inexcusable.



Notdarkyet, you are now dark. I just need to inform you since we don't have an ignore button, that I regretfully have to ignore you now as you persist in accusing me of hating Jewish people. Maybe you do this because you have not been warned yet by the moderators to stop your hateful accusations. Whatever reason, I won't respond to anymore of your unChristian accusations.

I give Rev the benefit of the doubt as it looks like he is trying to dialogue. If you apologize for calling me a "hater of Israel", I will most gladly dialogue with you again, but until then, there is no point in talking with you. You should also apologize to others.

This thread is now closed from a virtual standpoint as we are discussing this with other people in another thread who are more generous of heart.

 2015/11/2 11:48









 yes.

with a HEAVY heart:

"Your colors are showing Julius21 and it ain't pretty.
You obvious and despicable defence of the haters of Israel
such as Steven Sizer as Rev has pointed out are inexcusable."

very very clearly.

 2015/11/2 11:50









 Re: yes.

Neil, please don't take part in our other discussion, too if you also are joining the notyetdark in accusing brothers of hating other people.

 2015/11/2 11:51









 Re:

this will be the last time I address you, until you repent from your wickedness.

"But Elymas the magician (for that is the meaning of his name) opposed them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. But Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, “You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord?"

REPENT FROM YOUR WICKEDNESS.

 2015/11/2 12:15





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