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MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3301
Texas

 Re:

Even if we're granted a divorce from a Judge, are we really divorced? Can a Judge separate you, God said let no man separate.

"What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."Mark 10:9


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Bill

 2015/10/30 9:57Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5533
NC, USA

 Re:

Bill- doesn't Jesus allow for a divorce in adultery situations?

Am I missing something?


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Todd

 2015/10/30 10:55Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:



What's the objective for raising this topic - to ensure outward purity - or to see a move towards integrity, spiritual maturity, the fruits of the Spirit? Can God not work through whatever situation a person/couple is in, as broken as it may be, whatever choices were made? And are not the "prostitutes and tax-collector" types among those most repentant and submissive to Christ? - including the ones with the big red "D" hanging from their necks?

What about those who are married legitimately - but who are not truly committed to the relationship regarding money management, availability, care of children, emotional loyalty, and so forth .... That's the kind of stuff that's ripping our society apart - but it's the kind of stuff that is perpetually overlooked! And the next generation takes that with them.

The family breakdown is a crisis of our culture. The question should be this: How can we, as ministers of reconciliation, draw on Christ to encourage and facilitate well-being in marriages - however they are configured now?

We might start with hospitality - inviting those with second marriages to our home and getting to know them - seeing their lives through their eyes - not just through our judgments!

Diane




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Diane

 2015/10/30 12:14Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3301
Texas

 Re:

Todd, not all marriages are joined together by God, hope this helps. The ones that are "really" joined together by God are probably still joined together. I had a marriage joined together by God, and I we stayed together for 38 years, until she passed. I really think this is deeper, because God said himself, if your marriage is truly joined together by him, let no man separate, this leads me to believe you will never divorce. Just because one say's we had a marriage joined together by God, was it really?

God declares the man and woman to be permanently united together as “one flesh.” This is a physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual oneness. Paul further explained that the death of one partner is the only thing that dissolves the permanent, “one flesh” relationship of marriage in God's sight: “For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; ... So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man” (Romans 7:2,3; cf. I Corinthians 7:39).


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Bill

 2015/10/30 12:20Profile
dolfan
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Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Prevention and proactive fellowship are where the church has to stand up, IMO. We're reduced to either just swinging the door open for any and every proffered reason for divorce and remarriage (which is not biblical), or we ignore it (which may in fact be better than the first one in some logical sense, but is still not biblical and does nothing about the problem), or we can knit ourselves tightly together so we equip ourselves for marriage-for-life and for holding ourselves accountable to each other (I'm thinking Matthew 18) when we refuse the biblical counsel of multiple elders.

That does not cure the problems we now have, but it would go a long way toward lessening the number of situations that arise because the church fails families and families fail themselves.

I don't know that a body of believers would have the authority to discipline someone who comes to Christ and to them in a remarried state even if the divorce was not biblically grounded. I have an exegetically tough time finding where someone in such a remarriage but repents of his past sins and yields to the Lordship of Jesus in commitment to Him is not accepted by the Lord at that moment, and if Jesus accepts Him then how can we not?
I know that does not cover nearly all of the situations people arrive to us from on this, and I don't have all the answers. Great discernment (and I don't mean the kind of discernment that is just the patient doing of nothing until doing something is just too inconvenient) is needed in each assembly and for each situation. If we who helped create this mess have no better options than a wink and a "sure come on in" or a frown and a "you can't be with us", then we maybe ought to seek God and see if there is any repentance left for us.



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Tim

 2015/10/30 14:03Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3414
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
roadsign wrote
We might start with hospitality - inviting those with second marriages to our home and getting to know them - seeing their lives through their eyes - not just through our judgments


That would be interesting statistics, to see those who judge divorced/remarried people harshly if they would actually invite them to their home to get to know those poor wicked sinners, without any hidden agenda.


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Lisa

 2015/10/30 14:39Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1425
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Sister Diane,

I find allot of heavenly wisdom in your words:)


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Fletcher

 2015/10/30 15:25Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3301
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Diane....We might start with hospitality - inviting those with second marriages to our home and getting to know them - seeing their lives through their eyes - not just through our judgments



That's easy for me, I think all my friends are on their 2nd-3rd and my sister is on her 4th.


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Bill

 2015/10/30 16:30Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1099
Germany NRW

 Re:

Well expressed, MrBillPro,

[People do stretch Romans 7:1 like that all the time but I cannot follow them there. If Paul intended to address that issue, it would have detracted from his argument. Several other reasons within the structure of Romans to support this but I will let it rest lest I, too, become a castaway and hijack the thread. : )]

Granted, Paul does not primarily talk about marriage here but about the new life. Nevertheless, he makes a strong point from a view universally accepted by the Jews and Christians in his day and age to illustrate his point about freedom from the law of sin and death. We can therefore conclude that this was the accepted view of marriage among first century Christians.

My point is not to condemn divorced and remarried people, but to tell them the truth in love. Yesterday I talked to that sister on the phone for almost an hour.

If we advise people, if your marriage does not "work out" or "breaks down" just get divorced and marry someone else and join a different fellowship, we may be sympathizing with them but one day they have to face the very words from Jesus who loves us more than anyone.

A broken marriage is very painful and we do not need to add more pain to that. I would welcome them into the fellowship without reserve just like anyone else, but when they start advising others to divorce and remarry, I will remind them what Jesus said.

Actually we had just a believing re-married couple join our house fellowship. They are true believers with a strong testimony.

In bygone centuries divorce was not an option. How come that it has now become an option? Were our ancestors wrong?

When we exchange marriage vows it is a commitment to each other, to family, to future children, to society and most of all, before God.

Condemning then is not in the spirit of love, condoning it is not in the spirit of truth.

100 years ago you would not find a single pastor who would conduct a wedding for divorcees. Were they all wrong and judgmental those days? Were they not rather conscience-bound?

Well we live in the 21st century where many of these formerly commonly accepted morals have been cast overboard. We need to face the fact that an ever increasing number of people are divorced and remarried or come from broken families and will be prone to end up with a broken marriage themselves - if the Lord does not heal from the inside out.

When the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do ? cried David in Psalm 13.

We are so used to the destruction caused by broken families.
With all the 21st century luxuries, I think it is more than offset by our moral poverty. Why do we have capitulate in fatalistic resignation?

We need to teach that marriage is not just a man and a woman in love but a sacred union sanctified by God. My son got married in China last month. He does not (yet) walk with the Lord and neither does his wife. I told him solemnly that they only have one go at marriage and that divorce and re-marriage is not a "fall back" option in case it does not work out.

At the wedding ceremony my wife and I recited 1.Cor 13. Our son told us that many of the guests had tears in their eyes...


 2015/10/30 17:09Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

An emphasis on this noble standard in itself can become a burden. It can create serious problems in Christian marriages - esp if a partner perceives the marriage to miss this lofty mark. That person may become distressed and ashamed over it. The result can be guilt, pride, controlling behaviors, anger, blame, giving up.... The partner may not care, may hide in work, hobby, an affair, etc.

Many Christians know far more about high standards than about nurturing spiritual/emotional/mental growth and healing in relationships.


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Diane

 2015/10/30 19:16Profile





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