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Griffo
Member



Joined: 2005/5/9
Posts: 14


 Adam's Sin


What was the punishment for Adam's sin? Physical death, spiritual death or eternal punishment?

 2005/5/10 7:52Profile









 Re: Adam's Sin


Adam's (Mankind's) sin was to violate Genesis 1:29 and to take up the eating of animal flesh. Early humans (australeopithicus afarensis) were herbivores. The penalty (result) was the development of hunting and weapons for the hunt, which led to the horrors of war. Diseases from uncooked meat was another penalty. (Cancer from carcinogens in cooked meat was not much of an improvement.) We transitioned from pacifist herbivores to killing machines, at war with each other and at war with nature and God's creation.

Bubbaguy

 2005/5/10 9:21
Griffo
Member



Joined: 2005/5/9
Posts: 14


 Re:

Quote:

bubbaguy wrote:

Adam's (Mankind's) sin was to violate Genesis 1:29 and to take up the eating of animal flesh.
Bubbaguy



That is not an answer I had expected! I also do not think it is correct. The judgment for Adam's sin was given in Genesis 3. It is also referred to (or at least its consequences) in Romans 5:12ff.

I agree that until Noah man was a herbivore. However, it is not until after the flood that God permits man to eat animal flesh. It is not the result of Adam's sin, it comes later. Secondly, I do not think that it could be called a punishment. It is not a punishment imposed by God but God giving his permission given for man to do something which he had previously not done. God does not tempt us to sin and I cannot see how he could say to Noah, you can now eat meat and then punish him for sinning. It would be dishonest and disingenuous - sometheing that we know God never is.

 2005/5/10 9:41Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: Adam's Sin

Quote:

Griffo wrote:

What was the punishment for Adam's sin? Physical death, spiritual death or eternal punishment?



I think we can disregard bubbaguys comments, in light of Gen 9:3 (granted, trees do move in the wind 8-)), that is unless he is quoting from the New World Translation or something (after all, why would God command him to sin?).

Adam's punishment was Physical (hey, he's not alive now, is he?). I personally believe that he repented of his sin, and was forgiven as one who looked toward Christ, as represented in the sacrifice of animals. Also, he would have been one of the men who "called upon the name of the Lord", after Enosh.

Bear in mind, that Adam was alive when Lamech (Noah's father) was walking on the earth. He would have known Enoch, and Methuselah. In all, I believe that Adam had to go through the humbling experience of learning about a God he once knew, personally, from decendants who were born long after his expulsion from the garden, and yet had stumbled across intimate knowledge of Him.


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Aaron Ireland

 2005/5/10 10:07Profile
Griffo
Member



Joined: 2005/5/9
Posts: 14


 Re:

Quote:

CJaKfOrEsT wrote:
Adam's punishment was Physical (hey, he's not alive now, is he?).



I can't fault your logic there. So physical death must have at least been part of the punishment.

My question is rooted in Romans 5:12- in Adam all sinned. If we all sinned in Adam, we all are liable to punishment for his sin. Was his punishment just physical death or was it more. Certainly, the context in Romans 5:12 is physical death, but doesn't sin always result in eternal punishment?

 2005/5/10 10:20Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

Griffo wrote:
Certainly, the context in Romans 5:12 is physical death, but doesn't sin always result in eternal punishment?



1 Cor 11:31-32, brings up the issue of 'Krisis' negating the necessity of eternal punishment. How great a punishment is 930 years of living a life, knowing that you're not as close to God as you could be.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2005/5/10 10:29Profile









 Re:


God gives permission in 9:3 for meat eating because there's no going back. And do you really mean to say that there is no connection between the weapons of the hunt, the weapons of war and sin????

Q: is the Truth of the earth and life embedded in the Bible or is the Bible embedded in the Truths of the world (which we can determine through direct scientific inquiry)????

Bub

 2005/5/10 11:33
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

we can disregard Jake/Bubbaguys notions on this. They are the speculations of a mind undisciplined by proper respect for the word of God. They are fantasies. Some of us have listened to these things a few times before. He does not believe the Bible except where he can fit it into his theories.

The sentence that God warned Adam of, was that 'in the day you eat, you shall surely die'. Adam's body took almost a century to die so it is clear that physical death was not the main thrust of the warning. Nevertheless Paul tells us in Romans 5 that 'sin entered and death by sin'. This took place at the moment (day) of Adam's sin but the consequences were not fully worked out in the physical realm for many a year.

Hebrew language has a way of doubling up an idea to intensify it. So we have the Song of Songs, meaning the best or ultimate song; and the Holy of Holies, meaning the ultimate place of holiness etc. the Lord of Lords and King of Kings are all part of this way of intensifying a statement. James' tells us the Elijah prayed earnestly, but the language behind it says 'he prayed in his praying'. This constantly happens in the Bible. "Thou wilt keep in in perfect peace", is literally "thou wilt keep him in peace peace".

The Gen 2:17 warning is literally 'dying thou shalt die'. This is the ultimate death. This spiritual death was illustrated in the later physical death of Adam's body, but the centre of this warning is spiritual death.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/5/10 11:54Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re:

Well said Ron.

Dan
/\/
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Daniel van de Laar

 2005/5/10 12:17Profile
hredii
Member



Joined: 2004/8/1
Posts: 218
Fresno CA

 Re: Adam's Sin

I have compassion for bubbaguy and his answer. We have to remember that what bubbaguy shared with us is not just a theory or "good or bad theology" but bubbaguy is a person with feelings just like all the rest of us. What I am saying is let us have compassion knowing that we have said some things that others have not agreed with and gave us a harsh word in response to our sharing our heart. I know in the past that here on SI I could of had more love and compassion in my responses to other peoples posts. Let us show kindness, gentleness, love and compassion to our fellow brethren and sisters. And please show me grace, I need grace.

P.S. My responce is not adressing if bubbaguy's statement is correct or not. This post is not about that. It is about showing love. And I know that even this post is lacking. That is why I need grace.


_________________
Adam Fell

 2005/5/10 12:48Profile





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