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My position is iron clad based upon the revealed character of God in the Bible. If a believer could not see that the Only Begotten absolutely destroys any other hypothesis it's because his biblical understanding is weak.
I have witnessed to thousands on unsaved people and this is just another of their objections like why did Jesus not know the earth was round ( He did of course) or what happened to the Dinysours?
Their nonsense imaginations dreamed up by carnal minds with a sliver thin view of time.
| 2015/9/29 12:42|
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Come on now Julius- you are not going to use the "it's not in the Bible so it can't be true" argument are you?
I could list all sorts of things that are not mentioned in the Bible but are perfectly true- but it would take the rest of my life to do it.
So it is obvious in both yours and Marc's theology that you would have a huge difficulty dealing with such an announcement.
It wouldn't be difficult for me. I would think they were demons.
Rather than saying such a thing is simply not possible (even though the earth is only a minuscule speck in the universe) I am interested in how you will deal with it if it is discovered (other than shouting "fake").
I am truly interested. I ask my wife this and she really doesn't have an answer.
I am also interested in how you will deal with it. I would rebuke them in the name of Jesus Christ.
Well, this is not a small thing, is it? This would be classified as very, very big. I know there are some small things not in the Bible, and you are right, I don't usually use the "It's not in the Bible", route.
But, this BIG thing is not in the Bible is it?
Would you please tell me, if God has supplied any direction for you to relate to these "beings". Do you relate to them with the Gospel or outside of it. We really have not been given any instructions how to relate to someone outside of the Gospel. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
What if they don't know anything about Jesus Christ?
The Bible speaks about man's condition, but not about alien's condition. How will you proceed? Will you decide that they are sinless and above men? What if they can do astounding things that man cannot do? Will you worship them? In short, will you lose your faith in Jesus Christ, if these aliens can do what man describes as miraculous signs and wonders?
So, let's just assume they exist and you get to meet one and they are nice and friendly and tell you that they have travelled from one end of the universe to another and have not found anyone named Jesus Christ (I kind of expect that). They are also very kind and benevolent and can actually save our planet from all of it's woes. And they are over 1000 years old and don't remember anyone having an old age problem and dying. How will you relate to them. Surely, it seems you have thought of all of these things.
| 2015/9/29 12:48|
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Good one Julius- made me chuckle. I hear you- and Marc as well.
But I haven't really said anything about intelligent and emotional life. Then we are getting into far dicier ground because arguably an intelligent emotional being may have a soul and may also have been created in God's image.
But I have only mentioned the most simplest forms of life- like bacteria or lichen or algae. I don't think they would have souls and wouldn't pose the same issues from a theo standpoint.
I've heard the demon theory; I guess anything is possible. But if you try to rebuke one they might hit you with their phaser.
Would you be disappointed some day to find out there are all sorts of marvelous things that God never saw fit to tell us about? Personally I think it would be pretty awesome.
Me: Jesus, your Grand Canyon was so amazing!
Jesus: Yes, but you should see the ice caverns on Regulon 4.
| 2015/9/29 13:23||Profile|
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Truly? I don't think about such things.
I want to be about my Father's business and He has not shared any of that "business", with me.
So, it won't alter my desire to fulfill God's will in my life and I don't think it will alter God's will for me, either.
I imagine finding a new life form in Antarctica would have the same effect on me as finding a new life form on Regulon 4. None!
| 2015/9/29 14:03|
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I just don't want Christians to freak out when it happens, because I am pretty certain it's going to happen.
I view it similarly to you- if they find life on another planet or moon it would be similar (for me) to them finding a new life form in the Marianus trench. I think it would be fascinating; I just personally don't limit the possibility for such discoveries to planet earth.
| 2015/9/29 14:14||Profile|
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In either case the video was enjoyable as it displays how unimaginably amazing our God is that this is all His!
There are scriptural references that do seem to allude to it as a pontential if not a fact... For example when Jesus states that wherever the gospel is preached in the entire "world" (Kosmos) she will be remembered for what she has done for me this day. One definition of Kosmos being universe...
Also Hebrews speaks of the worlds (plural- aiōn) being framed by His word. Aiōn can also be defined as universe. There are other examples that I'd imagine were noted as peculiar in your studying out the scriptures.
So since the universe was/is framed by His word and His word is life.... I mean it's not a stretch (for me) to see it as a very real possibility tho I'm not ignorant to the fact that we could also be deceived by demonic principalities masquerading as such.
Again in either case I for one really enjoy learning about creation itself as it often requires me to just sit in awe of what all He has done and the awesomeness of it all is both stimulating and humbling.
While living in NYC shortly after 9/11 I had the opportunity to visit the Rose Hadden planetarium and they had a very impressive extended version of the video you posted as their current event. One of the best experiences of my time in NY and def most I ever got for $20 there.
| 2015/9/29 14:16||Profile|
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Mountain gorillas were not discovered until 1902.
Not sure why I felt compelled to share that.
| 2015/9/29 14:16||Profile|
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One thing I plan not to do here is jab at your Christian walk based on your belief of alien intelligence. :) My goodness.
God could -- in His infinitude, and because it pleases Him to do so, and since as His creation I cannot truly object to what pleases Him, and I must leave to Him to do according to the counsel of His own will -- create any number of planets with any forms of intelligent life that He saw fit to create. After all, before He created us, He created the angelic hosts. The realm(s) in which they exist
is fully His decision, just like He has determined where men shall live (Acts 17:26).
It does not shake my faith or belief one iota. In fact, in some ways I suppose it could increase my understanding of Him, and that is a blessing.
But, if He has created extraterrestrial-but-planetary alien intelligent life, I doubt we'll ever know it in this life. Why not?
First, we've been here this long and there's no reason to think they'll arrive, and there's no reason to think we'll reach them --- even by radio signals traveling at the speed of light through the cosmos.
Secondly, if He had intended to reveal Himself to us through that kind of creation by Him, it seems to me that He would've fit that kind of revelation up under the revelation of Himself to us in Christ. It would require a wholly new invention of exegesis and interpretation to make that work, and we're not up to task and never will be, IMO. Can you imagine? We can't even figure out if these recent "blood moons" matter or if there's a Shemitah up in here, and we sure can't agree on how to understand Scripture with those simple things. How could we ever hope that morons like us** would ever reach the knowledge of how alien intelligent life reflects the Scriptural revelation of God in Christ?(**NOTE, my tongue is in my cheek here!! I say that about myself as Chief Moron and the rest of you as lesser morons or comparative geniuses about life in general, although when compared to God Himself we haven't even learned to mumble coherently. Please don't be offended. I'm joking.)
Third, it appears the most we'll be able to do scientifically is surmise the existence of these intelligent beings. All of the instruments we've spent billions of dollars to float around the earth or to sail the seas of our solar system and beyond, and we've made enormous artwork of it. We are bedazzled by pictures and the oversimplified, crayon-written explanations by journalists. And, what we have are theories. Some theories are based on equations and probabilities all of which require that some variables are manipulated by sheer assumption or at least by presupposition that is supported by less than certain data. Other theories are arrived at by theoretical physicists who, as the very name implies, create theories for a living and have a vested interest in occasionally hitting upon something that they can make appear as actual. We don't even have the level of proof that it takes to convict somebody of a crime -- and THAT level of proof is expressly less than "scientific proof"***
(***NOTE: Proof beyond reasonable doubt is almost universally defined in the US as not requiring proof to a scientific certainty, although the CSI shows and Forensic Files, etc., would create the opposite yet very untrue impression.)
It is, in part perhaps, because we are willing to accept partial proof as total proof in areas of our common experience that we are compelled a bit to side with the scientists in filling in gaps between what is known and what is theorized. But, even the scientists do not have "experience" in these things since none of them has ever found an inhabited planet -- or a necessarily habitable one -- with intelligent life beyond this one. They get paid to a whole lot of looking for it, but there is no base of experience in their failed searching that will ever lead me to give them a benefit of doubt in their theories on this particular question.
| 2015/9/29 14:38||Profile|
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He could not redeem another life form. Angels were create as ministering agents for the heirs of salvation. The ones that rebelled have no opportunity of redemption for reasons made clear in the scripture.
Any other beings on any other planet created for any other purpose would rebel, fall and have no redeemer. You guys are all Armenian (free will)I can't fathom how that is hard to understand. Unless of course you think that God can do anything because He is God. Which of course would be even more rediculous.
PS please don't make me list the countless things that God cannot do!
| 2015/9/29 14:51|
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Well said Tim. I don't disagree with you.
Marc- you mean questions like "could God create another God exactly like Himself?"
But you still haven't said how you would react if they discover alien life. Humor me and pretend for a moment.
| 2015/9/29 15:15||Profile|