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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Reason and faith

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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1354
Lakeland FL

 Reason and faith

This is another topic I would like some input on. Reason is the ability to explain something naturally and Atheists are very hardcore with this. Faith believes in the unseen of the things that are not seen as if they are seen. With this topic I would like poster to share something about reason was not able to provide an answer yet faith did.

Here is an example of what I am talking about. Someone gets in a bad accident to the extent that they should have been killed. Yet, they don't have a scratch on themselves. Reason will stretch to explain this. Faith knows why. Possibly an angel,

Another example, tornado hits a house and after it passes by a baby is found on a mattress in a tree without a scratch. How does that happen? Reason has no answers but faith does.

Do you know any true stories in which things like this have occurred? Please share them because I want to use them in an write up.

John


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John

 2015/9/19 20:21Profile









 Re: Reason and faith

I was born again on Dec 29/1989 through a very dramatic vision. At the time of my conversion I smoked a pack and a half a day. I knew immediately I was suppose to quit smoking but as anyone who has tried to quit will confirm it is very difficult.

I didn't know about prayer or much of anything all I knew was I wanted to quit and told the Lord I was sorry every time I lit one up. 6 days after my conversion on Jan 3/1990 I was in Midland Ontario ( I drove for a distribution company). It was a cold rain in January and I jumped up into the truck at a stop and felt what could only be described as a hot quarter on the top of my head. It was very hot and i stopped dead in my tracks up in the truck.

The circle of heat spread out over the entire top of my head and then started to move down over my entire head like hot thick honey or oil. It slowly moved down over my shoulders and chest and back. To this point it was clearly on the outside of my body, it then went inside my chest and became twice as hot. I thought I was dying at this point but was stunned because while the heat was incredably intense, it did not produce what I would call pain.

After the intensification in my chest last lasted around 20 seconds, the entire process reversed in a matter of seconds. I stood ther for a few minutes not having a clue what had happened or why. I jumped into the front of the truck started it an pulled away.

Hours later I habitually reached for my smokes and was stunned that I had none, I had intended to buy a pack at the stop where the heat had hit me int the truck. I realized I had not bought any and then I realized it had been 3 hours since I had one. I also realized I did not want one and here we are 25 years later and I have never had another cigerette or a single craving for one since. The heat of God delivered me instantly.

marcmc

 2015/9/20 6:36
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5089
NC, USA

 Re: Reason and faith

John-

Are you looking for examples that absolutely cannot be explained with rational means?


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Todd

 2015/9/20 7:59Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1354
Lakeland FL

 Re:

TMK

Yes, things that reason cannot answer even if it reaches hard to find an answer. It usually has to reach out in faith to explain an incident.

Any event that happened that cannot be explained by reason yet it happened. The parting of the Red Sea would be another example but I am wanting something in this modern day.


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John

 2015/9/20 19:40Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2707
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
I would like poster to share something about reason was not able to provide an answer yet faith did.



Divine revelation of the Bible is the greatest example, it lies outside of the ability of the mind to discover. The mind can make deductions with this revelation after it has come by the spirit but it cannot find it by itself.

For example, that God created the heaven and the earth or that there are three Persons in the Godhead. Or how about the fact that God is love and that Jesus Christ died to save sinners? This is the knowledge of faith, not reason.

I am glad however, that God confirms these matters of faith regularly through natural experiences.

In Christ,


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Ron Halverson

 2015/9/20 20:33Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1077
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Reason and faith

Brother John,

After thinking on this for a bit, a declaration by Leonard Ravenhill came to mind in which he said something like this; the greatest display of Gods power is when He takes an unholy man out of the world, makes him holy puts him back in the world and keeps him holy,... Only God can do that, there's no medicine nor method of man that could ever achieve those results.

With that being said perhaps some strong testimonies may be of help to you as they are first person experiences and not just facts/phenomenon which to the carnal mind will always be debatable.
Milton Green's testimony comes to mind as I'd imagine it a hard thing to disavow.
I realize this isn't as specific as you were asking for but it may be a profitable angle-

If you haven't heard it-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ne36EGj_Tgs


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Fletcher

 2015/9/20 23:09Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1354
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

Divine revelation of the Bible is the greatest example, it lies outside of the ability of the mind to discover. The mind can make deductions with this revelation after it has come by the spirit but it cannot find it by itself.

For example, that God created the heaven and the earth or that there are three Persons in the Godhead. Or how about the fact that God is love and that Jesus Christ died to save sinners? This is the knowledge of faith, not reason.

I am glad however, that God confirms these matters of faith regularly through natural experiences.

In Christ,



While this seems fine it is not what I am looking for. I am looking for something that happened very recent and something that someone can relate to. i.e. as I mentioned earlier, a baby in the tree unharmed won't be found in the bible. A bad car wreck where no one is hurt or scratched is not found in the bible.

My personal guess if is you don't have any examples, beyond the bible, it is possible you don't know of any circumstances that apply to my question. I am looking for modern day 'miracles'.


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John

 2015/9/21 8:13Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

Bro., I hope you get the feedback you are looking for. I know of an instance where my own brother was in a car wreck where the little truck he was driving flipped 3 times, he had on no seat belt, the cab of the truck was crushed in like an aluminum can, and he walked away without a scratch. People looked at the truck and wondered how he lived.

God's mercies? I hope so. God's miracle? Not so sure. I praise Him for it, yet my brother, 27 or 28 years or so later now, is as much an unregenerate sinner as the day he walked away from that wreck.


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Tim

 2015/9/21 8:21Profile









 Re:

An atheist nor anyone else will never be brought to salvation through reason:

1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Atheists think anything other than reason is foolishness.

Those who belong to the world may seem to have the upper hand now with all their "reasoned" arguments as they spurn the "foolishness of the cross", but a time is coming when they will wither like grass. We need to lovingly share the scandal of the cross and the love of a Savior with all men.

1 Corinthians 1:18-19
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Point them to the cross, to Jesus. Reason cannot explain the life, death and resurrection of Christ.

Reason wrings its hands and says, "There has to be a better way!" Faith looks at Jesus and hears Him whisper, "I am the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6).

I would be cautious about thinking that we need to have an answer for all the atheist questions and do not let anyone put you on the defensive. Don't play their games.

Faith answers the questions that reason cannot even approach.

You could even say that reason is the enemy of faith.

Reason can be the enemy of faith, because it attempts to "trump" trust in God by encouraging us to rely on human intellect. This kind of logical thinking places confidence in man,






 2015/9/21 8:23
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1354
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

Bro., I hope you get the feedback you are looking for. I know of an instance where my own brother was in a car wreck where the little truck he was driving flipped 3 times, he had on no seat belt, the cab of the truck was crushed in like an aluminum can, and he walked away without a scratch. People looked at the truck and wondered how he lived.

God's mercies? I hope so. God's miracle? Not so sure. I praise Him for it, yet my brother, 27 or 28 years or so later now, is as much an unregenerate sinner as the day he walked away from that wreck.



It seems to me that these kinds of things happen more than we realize and yet most people pass it by as these people being lucky. Some will say there was an angel because no way a person could have survived. This is an example of the evidence. How does reason explain this?


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John

 2015/9/21 8:29Profile





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