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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Young Adults "Leaving the Faith"

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 Re:

That is true, Lysa.

Also, men usually duplicate what they are and what they know. If they are "church-goers" they will create church-goers. If they are working for their salvation, they will create works oriented disciples instead of disciples doing works led by the Spirit. If they teach one thing and do another or value knowledge over love, their "offspring" will look like them, and usually worse as Jesus indicated (Matt 23:15). These "disciples" will hopefully come to a place in their life where they burn out (which is good) and then fall upon the mercy of God and discover His rest and true liberty in Christ. Legalistic, performance oriented, Judaizing elements have always dogged the Church of Jesus Christ, and has no appeal to a young or old person who has been genuinely regenerated. It is a "voice" they do not recognize and their spirit is repelled by the legalistic spirit. This is why some leave "church". Of course, there is not one answer, and we can't assume everyone is not born-again. There are many born-again people in religious institutions living lives of quiet desperation, going through the paces of religious performance, wondering, "Is this what being a Christian is all about"?

Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

I know this verse has to do with Judaizers, but it can be applied to anyone who adds to the word and the gospel of grace. Many "ministers" advocate certain "performances" but demonstrate that they are unable to perform them. Young people see the insincere pretensions of hypocrisy. Notice, how Barnabas was also carried away by personalities and false teaching.

Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

Galatians is actually a very good book to introduce to new Christians.

Man does not have it in himself to produce fruit or divine character as demanded by the "Judaizer" or the "Christianizer". So, religion settles for something less, rules and regulations that they espouse. And when people are observing, they make token efforts to perform.

Michael Pearl once said, "More is caught than taught", in reference to raising children. Same concept can be applied to anyone who is learning from a "teacher". You can teach them until you are blue in the face, but the real teaching, is your actions, conduct and behavior and this will always be picked up and noticed, by your wife, your children, your disciples.

If you create a religious system, that compromises behavior, don't be surprised when true believers or even those hungry for truth, see the hypocrisy and want to leave. This is partly, why many are leaving.

Paul, did not glory in any man. He only gloried in the cross of Christ. Today, is not much different than the days of Paul. Men 'desire to make a good showing in the flesh" (6:12) and have "bragging rights" over you. Just like the Judaizers, they have self-serving motivations of proud self-exaltation deftly concealed under a thin veneer of "spirituality".

Throughout the history of mankind, religion focuses on the outward, numbering their converts, tallying up statistics, identifying themselves with a segregated group and persuading new converts to CONFORM to their ways. In the religious realm, people have always been used as pawns and taken advantage of that they may eventually become trophies in the process.

Galatians should surely be taught to every new Christian, but will the religious system teach them to stay away from those who uses forceful, manipulative methods to "compel them to be "circumcised" (persuade them to adhere to their church's laws over and above the Gospel of Grace)? Will they be taught to stay away from those who use the motivation of fear to keep them from being persecuted for the cross of Christ? They have no consistency! "They do not keep the law, themselves" and they teach them by example to be hypocritical. This has got to steal a person's joy and peace and severely wear on them as they begin to question their walk with God. To maintain their "sanity", they end up leaving the "sweat factory" of religion. They may not know where they are going, but they just know they need to leave.



 2015/9/10 10:22
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

Quote:
I don't think they've met the real Jesus because if they had, they would love Him and not want to leave Him.


Lysa: while I too believe that many churches are weak in their grasp of the gospel, your assertion is not entirely correct - c.f. Mark 4:1-9.

Here's a question for this thread: if you knew people who claimed to be Christian but whose beliefs and conduct were contrary to that, how would you approach them?

 2015/9/10 11:08Profile
jochbaptist
Member



Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 278


 Re: Young Adults "Leaving the Faith"

There is this joke of the church that had a bat infestation in their steeple. The Reverend in charge did all he could, except for killing the bats, (as it was against church policy) but could not get rid of them.

Once, for instance, all the bats were caught, and released in a nearby cave, but they returned the next evening. They were then released in a bigger cave, in a neighboring town, but still they returned. They were even once quietly released near a neighboring church steeple, at night, but they still returned the next evening.

Finally, out of desperation, they offered a big financial reward for the person who could get rid of the stubborn bats.

One day a wise old man came, caught all the bats, spent a evening with them in church, then released them, and they completely vanished. When the old man came to collect his reward after a month, the relieved Reverent wanted to know how he did it.

" I caught them one by one, sprinkled them at the baptismal font, taught them the Catechisms and accepted them as church members. Then I let them go their own way." said the old man. "And they never returned." :)


_________________
J Kruger

 2015/9/10 11:54Profile









 Re: Divisions are also noticeable...

The Religious system is replete with countless divisions and thousands of church splits each year. Sometimes for the most minor things, (usually external based things). This too, does not escape the notice of young believers with soft hearts, who read their Bible.
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Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

 2015/9/10 13:05









 Re:

My conversion experience was unlike any I have heard of except maybe Paul's. I was radically saved in the extremest sense of those words.

I say that only to convey that I have been "ON FIRE" since that moment. My walk is effortless, joyful and intense. And this is of course the result of the fire that was lit by the radical salvation experience I had.

But when I had children I realized that what had happend to me would not happen to my children. At that time I was not reform and I spent a ton of time pretty much interviewing older believers about their children's walk with God and also educational success since we see so many dropouts at the College / University my wife teaches at.

What we found is the parents that had success with their children's education did not pay for the first year. But contracted with their children that if they paid and passed their first year the rest would be paid for by us. So far 2 have graduated post secondary and 2 more started this year and are in fantastic shape for success.

On the spiritual side what I found in hundreds of talks with older people was this was the biggest source of heartache in their lives. Almost without exception the moment their children were old enough that they couldn't be forced to go To church they stopped. And what I noticed as well was that their children had a very simple, basic walk with God before they stopped and only a few picked any of it back up later. I concluded these children like most believers had a "God is at the Church and Sundays we visit Him mantality". There was no reality to their every day lives.

I took this to the Lord when they were very small with a concerned and sincere heart. What the Lord showed me over a period of time changed everything for me. He told me specifically when they said anything untrue, He told me their lie and what really happened so they knew very early that Daddy hears from God. He also instantly healed any sickness or pain they had when I prayed for them. I must emphasis this was only my children and not even their children.

All five of my children love the Lord, know He is real, seek Him for themselves in their lives, never lie to me and are still blown away when they ask me to tell them again what took place December 29 1989 at 6:40 in the morning to their dad when He was 25 years old. Because they have lived their entire lives seeing only the fruit of it.

God has to be real to young people, not stories, bible lessons, rules or Sunday visits. But hands on 24/7 radically real. My Children live in the knowledge of a real God who is really there all the time.

Marc mc

 2015/9/10 18:18
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re:

Quote:
Julius21 wrote:
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.


bhahaha Thank you for injecting humor into this thread!!!


_________________
Lisa

 2015/9/10 18:55Profile
Theophila
Member



Joined: 2007/1/15
Posts: 364


 Re:

God has to be real to young people, not stories, bible lessons, rules or Sunday visits. But hands on 24/7 radically real. My Children live in the knowledge of a real God who is really there all the time.

That, right there, is the solution to the problem! If God isn't real to mum and dad, the chances of their children walking with Him dwindle by the day! So that by the time they are in their teens, they want nothing to do with church.

I remember growing up knowing I could NEVER lie to my mother because she would know it.

It is not a matter of making the programs more engaging or any such foolishness. It is SEEING the Lord REAL in the lives of their church-going parents. Any other strategy is putting the cart before the horse.

The result is the OP.


_________________
Tolu

 2015/9/10 19:05Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re:

Quote:
by yuehan
Quote:
I don't think they've met the real Jesus because if they had, they would love Him and not want to leave Him.


Lysa: while I too believe that many churches are weak in their grasp of the gospel, your assertion is not entirely correct - c.f. Mark 4:1-9.

Here's a question for this thread: if you knew people who claimed to be Christian but whose beliefs and conduct were contrary to that, how would you approach them?


I read what you wrote and I'd just like to ask, who is to say that the people supposedly representing Jesus (and are not) is in fact the "stony ground" or the "thorns" you quoted??? And that that is why these people take no root, wither away and get choked out and yield no fruit?

Had they met the real Jesus (good ground), they would love Him and would yield fruit increase and some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

Amen??


_________________
Lisa

 2015/9/10 19:06Profile
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

Quote:
Lysa: I read what you wrote and I'd just like to ask, who is to say that the people supposedly representing Jesus (and are not) is in fact the "stony ground" or the "thorns" you quoted??? And that that is why these people take no root, wither away and get choked out and yield no fruit?

Had they met the real Jesus (good ground), they would love Him and would yield fruit increase and some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.


I've avoided making blanket, dichotomous statements on this topic.

My intention was to point out that in Scripture, those who encountered the real Jesus had different responses: some followed Him, others followed Him for a bit and then fell away, while others were offended and hated Him without a cause.

It's true that some do not believe in Jesus because they have not encountered Him.

But there are also those who have heard of Jesus' invitation to abundant life, and yet refuse to come to Him. After all, God extends to us a choice and we are responsible for exercising our free-will. Let us not blame anyone in these instances.

Just because the correct "inputs" are inserted, it doesn't guarantee that we will obtain the desired "output" (so to speak).

I have met people in both categories - some who shun the light and preferred to remain in darkness, and those who had their lives radically transformed when they encountered Jesus Christ through good church ministry.

 2015/9/11 4:21Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re:

Quote:
by yuehan
But there are also those who have heard of Jesus' invitation to abundant life, and yet refuse to come to Him. After all, God extends to us a choice and we are responsible for exercising our free-will. Let us not blame anyone in these instances.

Just because the correct "inputs" are inserted, it doesn't guarantee that we will obtain the desired "output" (so to speak).


I understand the realism of what you are saying.

We are two pieces of pie in the pie pan both pointing toward the center of the pie (Christ); you're pie piece is as valid as mine!! That's the awesomeness of God, isn't it?!!

God bless!!


_________________
Lisa

 2015/9/11 7:14Profile





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