Santa Clara, CA
| Great perspective|
Good perspective there. Will you promise us an update from the conference? Sounds like a wonderful realm of possibilities there...
| 2005/5/8 12:24||Profile|
Phoenix, Arizona USA
Agent 001 wrote;
I have received an open letter jointly signed by reputable Chinese church leaders (many of whom appeared in the CD, The Cross In China), concerning Brother Yun's false testimonies (whose real name is Zhengying Liu).
Sam, I'm wondering if you could give us some more detail concerning this letter you received. How did you come to receive this letter and do you personally know the people who wrote it? More importantly, do the people who wrote it personally know Brother Yun?
I honestly would like to know more about this man and the back to jerusalem ministry. I have not given any money to his ministry but I would like to support it if indeed it is worthy.
Like DezCall, I have been spiritually blessed by Brother Yun's book but after some reflection on this subject I have to admit that my initial reaction to your post was to reject your warning simply because I have read the book and even passed it along to others and was selfishly afraid of looking bad before others by having been "duped" by a con-man. I apologize and ask your forgiveness and the Lord's.
Who or what is your foundation? Your pastor? The sermons you hear here on SI? Your friends? Are you always waiting for words of God from others instead of reading the Word yourself and get one from God personally? Or is it Jesus only? Are you standing on the Rock?
Thanks for this wonderful reminder Paul! The Lord has clearly been showing me lately how much need there is for each Christian to have a well of our own freely flowing in our own backyard, so to speak. When the crises come in our lives, we need our own anointing, we cannot stand on the anointing of others.
| 2005/5/8 15:25||Profile|
Have just returned from our Sunday evening meeting where one of our number has just returned from visiting 'in-laws' in China. He referred to the pressure the house church movement was coming under to 'register'. Some have done so an some have not; this is causing some frictions between the saints. It occured to me that some of the info now leaking into the west may be partly coloured by these tensions. Just a thought.
| 2005/5/8 16:33||Profile|
Yes, I have a friend that is about to go to China for atleast one year (maybe longer) and thats what they have been telling her as she is in preperation to go. The government wants the house churches to register. The down side of them registering is that the government tries to limit where they can evangelise and can have influence on who is the pastor and what is preached...
| 2005/5/8 16:57||Profile|
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I am just a small brother in Christ, who is ethnically Chinese and currently resides in Toronto, Ontario. I speak fluently in Mandarin and Cantonese. I do have some personal acquaintances who are Christians in the house churches in southern China.
I did not receive the original letter, I apologize if I gave such an impression. It was posted on a newsletter from Christian Communication Inc. of Canada ([url=http://www.ccican.org ]http://www.ccican.org [/url] -- Chinese site). The ministry focus of this organization is ministry to house churches in China and also to Chinese immigrants, especially scholars, in North America. I will provide their contact here for verification:
3880 Midland Ave., Units 2-4, Scarborough, ON M1V 5K4
Tel.: (416) 297-6540 Fax: (416) 297-6675
The copy of the letter published on the CCI Canada Newsletter resembles the one on [url=http://www.jesusreturn.net]http://www.jesusreturn.net[/url]. The Chinese church leaders featured on that website have appeared on the DVD now well-known among Christians in the west - [i]"The Cross -- Jesus in China"[/i]. (Those who own the DVD can easily verify this).
From my own perspective, the sufferings and ministry of Pastor Samuel Lamb (who also signed the letter renouncing the "heavenly man") are well known among Chinese Christians and many in the West. He was one of the few house church leaders in China that Billy Graham visited during his trip to China. [b]In contrast, I have not heard of Brother Yun until I heard news about him through western Christian media in the last few years. [/b](Quite extraordinary, because I have been following news on the Chinese churches for years)
In fact, according to the newsletter of CCI of Canada (which has been involved in ministry in China for 15 years), they did not know about this "Brother Yun" (really Zhenying Liu) until they started to receive inquiries from some western pastors. [b]It would seem to me that "Brother Yun" is only a phenom in the West.[/b]
Whether you accept what I have said or not, I think the call to discernment is always appropriate. Beware of sensationalism (a problem that manifests itself in the western churches in many different ways). Be zealous, but also wise.
May God bless his Church in China!
P.S. I wish I had used a different title, something like, "Chinese House Church Leaders Raised Concerns about Brother Yun".
| 2005/5/9 10:27||Profile|
Yes, I have a friend that is about to go to China for atleast one year (maybe longer) and thats what they have been telling her as she is in preperation to go. The government wants the house churches to register.
I heard a recent visitor from China, whose wife is Chinese, comment that the Chinese Communists had 'learned' from the Russian Communists. The Russians decided the 'free' spirits of the Churches were dangerous and resolved to destroy them. The Chinese also fear the 'free spirits' but have decided that 'control' is better than outright attempts to destroy. Wicked wisdom!
| 2005/5/9 11:02||Profile|
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
| Chosing sides|
Quote:So which side is which in this drama of brother Yun?
The government wants the house churches to register.
| 2005/5/9 11:17||Profile|
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
| 2005/5/9 13:11||Profile|
Santa Clara, CA
Thanks Sam and to all here...
Showing forth great patience with all of this.
| 2005/5/9 15:57||Profile|
Celbridge Kildare Ireland
| Brother Yun|
Brother Yun spoke here in Dublin last month and I must concur with another post here the gospel was not preached, even allowing for the translation. The church sponsoring the event are deeply into prosperity and most other recent additions to the gospel.
I had not read his book but my wife and daughters had been impressed with the story, mainly his sufferings of which his survival is a miracle.
The evening began with his interpretor retelling a story of the dead being raised by another brother. The dead man was a high official within the commuinist party but as no names can be given this becomes an accept on face value issue. Brother Yun then told his story. What struck me was just how parellel it was to the stories of Peter and Paul, complete with the miraculus opening of the prison and also Pauls many stripes and beatings. I am loath to not believe the brother but must say in my Spirit I had grave misgivings.
What concerned me more was the descriptions of how they intend to train young christians in the practice of Accupunture and eastern massage as this would allow them to "lay hands " on people without them knowing and thus propel them into the Kingdom. I can find no ressonance with this in scripture and in fact hold that Accupuncture and most eastern medical practises are deeply rooted in the occult.
By the time we got to the "altar call" I was decidely concerned. The altar call was very unspecific in that they were calling on 1. the unsaved 2. the backslidden 3. anyone who wanted inner healing 4 physical healing 5 any one with a non specific need. I know the Lord can and does minister accross all these areas but one was left with the feeling that the intent was to get as many people on their feet as possible for the cameras. This was backed by the local pastor speaking of "thousands coming forward" when in fact the entire audience was around 1300.
My final impression was that either the brother was a con or had become conned by the churches in the west and been hijacked by their lust for celebrity. I would love to have had a contingent of Chinese Brothers all confirming each other.
Anyway I think I have said enough I merely relate what I saw and heard.
Paul R Carley
| 2005/5/10 8:53||Profile|