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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Warning: False Testimonies of Brother Yun, the "Heavenly Man"

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Agent001
Member



Joined: 2003/9/30
Posts: 386
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Warning: False Testimonies of Brother Yun, the "Heavenly Man"

Dear saints,

I have received an open letter jointly signed by reputable Chinese church leaders (many of whom appeared in the CD, [i]The Cross In China[/i]), concerning Brother Yun's false testimonies (whose real name is Zhengying Liu).

The authenticity of this letter can be verified at [url=http://www.jesusreturn.net]http://www.jesusreturn.net[/url] where pictures of house church leaders signing the document are shown.

The following is the translated script of the Open Letter (posted on the aforementioned website). The quality of the translation is poor, however, the main points of the letter is readily seen. The image of the original document with signatures and other references can be found on the website.

I urge my fellow Christians in the West to exercise discernment on this matter and to warn other Christians who might be deceived by this not so "heavenly man".

Agent001

P.S. According to the newsletter of Christian Communication Inc. of Canada ([url=http://www.ccican.org]http://www.ccican.org[/url] -- Chinese site), most of the money offerings received by the "Back to Jerusalem" movement associated with Brother Yun are unaccounted for and in light of the fact that churches overseas are uncritically accepting Yun's testimonies, the Chinese churches are prompted to appeal for spiritual discernment with an Open Letter.






[b]An Open Letter of Love Advice from Leaders & Co-workers of Chinese Churches To Worldwide Christian Churches[/b]

[i]Being a member of churches in China (or Chinese churches) and of body of Christ, by inheriting the teaching and the spirit of Mr. Wang Mingdao, we feel responsible for announcing this love warning to all non-Chinese churches and believers:

The churches in China grow up by suffering blood and tears. Even through poverties and persecutions, they still stand firm and not moved. After China were opened, great human resources and financial aids from overseas did help churches, but these abundant physical resources and money also made some ministers to fall into the snares.

According to some objective investigation and evidences, we are able to carefully speak the truth in love: The Heavenly Man-- Liu Zhenying, who is supported by Xu Yongze of the Born again Group in Henan and pretty active in West right now, is a man who makes false testimony and deceives Western churches. He misuses the name of God; He knows the truth but still sins purposely. He is a black sheep (Hai qun zhi ma) in churches of China.

We emphasize on unity in Christ. We also agree with the fact that Chinese people to spread Gospel to the whole world, including back to Jerusalem. But we can't just have these understandings and to ignore the essential character of spiritual life in cross. We oppose the way that Heavenly Man boasts and lies to strive for fame, wealth and status by making use of the name "suffering, unity & mission". We can't agree with Heavenly Man. He has no qualification to represent churches in China to speak.

We sincerely give this advice to churches, organizations & believers overseas or within the country---to discern carefully and not to be misled by propaganda. We also exhort all groups and individuals who support Heavenly Man to take your courage and to turn from mistakes. We persuade Heavenly Man to stop the spiritual deception thoroughly and to apologize openly. Otherwise, it will be a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

We appeal to all believers & co-workers to intercede for thousands who has been deceived or misled, pray for God's healing falls upon the wounded. Ask the Lord to help them to learn warnings from this lesson, out of the disappointment and still keep their enthusiasm and love. Pray to the Lord to give them discernment and wisdom, and truly become the alert watchmen/intercessors, and finally to be a blessing to China.

25 October 2004 signed: Allen Yuan, Mrs. Yuan (Liang Huizhen), Yuan Pinghu, Yuan Fule, Moses Xie Moshan, Mrs. Xie (Chen Ailan), Weng Bin.
04 November 2004 signed: Samuel Lamb (Lin Xiangao), Chen Guancheng etc.[/i]


_________________
Sam

 2005/5/6 17:11Profile









 Re: Warning: False Testimonies of Brother Yun, the "Heavenly Man"

Quote:
I urge my fellow Christians in the West to exercise discernment on this matter and to warn other Christians who might be deceived by this not so "heavenly man".



so we should exercise the same kind of discernment you did before you clicked on the "submit" button?

I want to ask you a question, do you read write and speak Mandarin?

The photo's of those people in the "jesusreturn" website, do you know them personally to be "leaders" in the house church in China?

Are you aware that national intelligence organs, such as the [b][size=medium]People's Republic[/size][/b] of China, a [b][size=medium]COMMUNIST[/size][/b]government would cook up "testimonies" to character smear a man of God, to divide the Church.

What do YOU know that we don't know?

I think your post stinks unless you have FIRST HAND knowledge you wish to share, and not just URL's of a dubious nature.

Being saved doesnt mean becoming stupid to the ways of this world.

 2005/5/6 18:37
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2707
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Warning: False Testimonies of Brother Yun, the "Heavenly Man"

Edit: Upon further reflection I have deleted my comments here until more information can be gathered.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2005/5/6 19:51Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Easy now

First off Agent001 has been with us here for quite some time and has been not one given to just casual conversation and would have quite a bit more knowledge in this area, a perusal back through the forum would bear this out.

So lets hold off with the sharpness there, also can't totally blame you Neil for not being aware of this as it is certainly a pretty heavy accusation.

My sense is to not let this go off the rails as it may take some time before the truth comes out and hopefully we would consider prayer that this indeed would be the result here. Selah.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/5/6 23:05Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Easy now

Agent001 does speak the language. He is Chinese. Not that this alone would confirm the post. The 'lionising' (making a star of) Christians from one place in another almost always causes these kinds of strife.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/5/7 2:18Profile









 Lionizing.

I agree with the propensity we have in idolizing/lionizing men in the church.

What I have noticed, in my readings, that a man, like John Sung, the man that God used in China, in the late 20's and early 30's, was that the majority of persecution he recieved was from other elements of the church, who would make exactly the same assertions(schmears) that were made on this single page website.

exact same.

I know character assassination is not unique to the Chinese church, but check this out, have you ever noticed how MANY different denominations there are of the Presbyterian Church there are in South Korea.

hundreds.

and I dare say that the faithfulness and the prayerfullness, and the holiness, zeal exhibited by our Korean brothers and sisters have directly led to the wealth and riches that the Lord has bestowed upon the Republic of Korea, but hundreds of seperate denominations of the same church?

point being, is there something in the buddhist/confuscinism background in the countries of China and Korea that lead to these behaviors among the New Testament churches?

 2005/5/7 18:21
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Warning: False Testimonies of Brother Yun, the "Heavenly Man"

I find it horriably telling that they don't actually cite any instances of the "Heavenly Man's" deceptions. They just broad brush him without actually naming any charges.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2005/5/7 21:18Profile
ravin
Member



Joined: 2004/5/6
Posts: 309
Washington st. u.S. A.

 Re:

In what I have seen of this man yun, he speaks of god and the lord Jesus christ and points to him.
I believe we here in america need to pray more read more of the word and follow as the lord leads.
" TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY: if they speak not according to this WORD, it is because there is no light in them. Isaih 8:20
If we must speak about someone lets speak to God about them the one who knows all and see's all.

 2005/5/8 1:16Profile
Chickpea
Member



Joined: 2005/5/5
Posts: 1
Glasgow

 Re:

I heard Brother Yun speak 2 weeks ago, and I was greatly disappointed. He talked of God's power to heal, but did not mention grace, atonement, redemption, sin, righteousness or repentance. I was sad that he then had an alter call, but with no clear message about what people were coming forward for. It's true that some of what he said may have been lost in the translation, but I still found it wholly disappointing.

 2005/5/8 8:24Profile
DezCall
Member



Joined: 2004/7/9
Posts: 315
The Netherlands

 Re:

I believe it’s no coincidence that Sam shared this with us here on SI. Thank you brother!

This coming Friday I’ll be attending a 4-day-conference where Brother Yun will be one of the main speakers. I read his book a while ago and was very much blessed by it. It encouraged me in my walk with God and even if this man truly is a deceiver no-one can rob me from the spiritual blessing it has had upon my life. I, no matter what, thank Jesus for this!

I just thought it would be a good thing to give you some more inside.

I have a friend who is personally acquainted with Samuel Lamb. She is Chinese and is befriended with brother Lamb. She has spoken in “his” church in Guangzhou several times. Through her I came to know Samuel Lamb (not personally!).

I read his biography “Bold as a Lamb”. I do recommend this biography to anyone here on SermonIndex. You will meet the Master through this servant! It’s a true blessing.

But well…why am I telling this. Well, while reading this book about Brother Yun I wrote my Chinese friend about it and shared how it was touching my life. She quickly replied and warned me for this deception. Her arguments were however strictly “subjective”, no facts and really rather speculative. Either she told me she would ask Samuel Lamb to write something about it or she said that he already was writing something about it, I don’t remember. Anyways, brother Lamb wrote an article on him.

Brother Lamb says in his article: “The Heavenly Man”…cannot be called “a heretic” because we haven’t discovered clear errors in his teaching…it is more appropriate to call him “a big con man” for he has deceived a lot of Christian churches, especially in Europe and the United States”.

This was my main objection to the arguments my friend gave me, saying that brother Yun is part of a sect and cheats with money etc. They’re merely human arguments, they don’t have anything to do with the things he teaches and I haven’t received any clear evidence about him yet. I personally was blown away by his clear views on the “western church” and how he addresses it. Just awesome.

But, my friends…I do consider Brother Lamb as my brother in Christ and this man is a true and sincere believer. Therefore I will be cautious and ask everyone to be like-minded, not only in this matter but in all our “reliance” on people. Let us not too quickly condemn either brother Yun or Brother Lamb and others, but may it be an incentive to focus our eyes solely on Jesus.

God says: “Seek Me and live” (Amos 5:5). It doesn’t say: “Hear mister So-and-so preach and you shall live”. I thank God for godly preachers and men who encourage and stimulate me in my personal walk with Jesus Christ, but they cannot and may not become my “Holy Ghost”, so to speak. “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.” (Psalm 118:8) Even if all preachers go astray and fall away from the truth I am able (and may God give me the grace) to stand firm, because [b]Christ[/b] is my foundation. I have to think of Psalm 91:7 where it says:

A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.

Who or what is your foundation? Your pastor? The sermons you hear here on SI? Your friends? Are you always waiting for words of God from others instead of reading the Word yourself and get one from God personally? Or is it Jesus only? Are you standing on the Rock?

I don’t know if I’ll be attending the service in which he’ll be preaching. If you read this, the best thing you can do is pray! Let us not follow men, but Jesus… “Let no one boast in men. For all things are yours: whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come--all are yours. And you are Christ's, and Christ is God's.” (1 Cor 3:21-23)
To give you some more inside on the conference I and William (_Disciple_) will be attending. Gary Wilkerson and Brother Andrew will be preaching there as well! Isn’t that awesome?! We’re really looking forward to it and desire to meet Christ since He alone is the main Speaker at the conference! May God work His works!

“Do not quench the Spirit…test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thes 5:19,21)

Your brother in Christ,
Paul


_________________
Paul

 2005/5/8 12:11Profile





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