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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Going in to darkness

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5085
NC, USA

 Re:

Sree-

I appreciate your sentiment- I really do.

But was Spurgeons church God's church? 6000 attended his services. How about Tozers church? I think it was large as well.

If men like these did not fuss about their style of church, perhaps that style is not an issue with God. No church is perfect.

If their churches were okay but modern day large churches are not, why? Where do we draw the line?


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Todd

 2015/9/3 12:19Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1632
Alabama

 Re:

I do want to reiterate that my thoughts are mine only. I'm not angry at the church and I'm not throwing rocks. But, there is a subversion within the Body. We need to recognize it and be aware of it as the priests of our homes and families. Seek God about it wherever you fellowship. Pray for the subversion to cease. Please do not understand me as offering a rebuke or suggesting one. I'm not your church's appointed critic. And, I'm not shying away from what is happening, either. God sets the members in the Body as it pleases Him, and we are responsible to Him and to our local fellowships.

A solid dose of yielding to one another with the purpose of convincing the world that God sent Jesus will break through the influence of a lot of these "invisible technologies", and open a lot of our eyes, too. I'm praying for that.


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Tim

 2015/9/3 13:25Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1624


 Re:

I cannot comment on Spurgeon's Church, I was not there to witness how he ran it. A mega Church is not just the number that characterizes it, it is the lack of fellowship.

In general the mega churches in USA where people are allowed to be visitors for ever, allowed to just come sit without knowing people on either side of you, hear a speaker and then go home, is not a Church that God intended to build. If Spurgeon was running such a Church then it also falls under the same condition.

God may still use such Church like how you mentioned in your post, but it is not Gods plan for a Church.

Most Americans actually want such a Church were there is no fellowship. They only need some Sunday sermon, no intention to bear the burden of one another. They get what they want.


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Sreeram

 2015/9/3 13:28Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5085
NC, USA

 Re:

I agree with you-

Unfortunately a very small number of persons know anything different.


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Todd

 2015/9/3 13:42Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1624


 Re:

I agree no Church is perfect. The Church that Jesus himself built on this earth with 12 disciples chosen by God himself had one traitor. So it was not a perfect Church. But there was a body of believers in it. There were 11 disciples in it who were united in one spirit, they turned the world upside down.

A Church is compared to a Body in Ephesians. In a body not all parts may work perfectly. There are Physically Challenged people who have a body too but not all organs work perfectly. But they still have a body in which the organs work together for a growth. It is this oneness, the fellowship that signifies a body.

In a mega Church this is lacking. If people are visitors for ever without being connected to one another then they are only individual organs not a body yet. This is not God's plan at all. You cannot call any individual eye as a body. It cannot be compared to an imperfect body at all.

Brother it is really carrying a cross to be part of a Body. It will hurt you when one organ is in pain. Many do not like to be in such body. That is why there is a mega church for such easy goers.


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Sreeram

 2015/9/3 13:53Profile









 Re:

Sree wrote,

"Most Americans actually want such a Church were there is no fellowship. They only need some Sunday sermon, no intention to bear the burden of one another. They get what they want."


Sree most Christians view the actual act of getting up Sunday morning, getting ready, going to the church, singing some song, listening to a pep talk, talking in the lobby about the kids and going home as massively pleasing to God.

A surprising number actually feel that the act of Church attendance is Cristianity.

marcmc


 2015/9/3 16:59
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1076
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Saints,
I can honestly agree with most all views represented on this thread as I don't see them as conflicting. There appears to be a consensus that there is def something wrong with the "church" at large in that it is weak and ineffective to the cause of Christ. And brother Tim I sincerely appreciate your observations as well as the burden you feel on this. It seems we all are taking part in that to the degree we are aware of it. Having said this, what are we to do? What is the "right" way to do church? It seems ever since the fading of the apostolic church there has been a series of cultural adjustments as well as doctrinal positioning as the gospel has spread, so has there been to anyone's knowledge a church that preserved and operated in the apostolic traditions left to us? Also what are the thoughts here on the 5 fold ministerial offices as they relate to today? Personally I have more questions than answers and earnestly look forward to learning about this.


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Fletcher

 2015/9/3 17:04Profile
Theophila
Member



Joined: 2007/1/15
Posts: 363


 Re:

I was fortunate to fellowship with such a group up North for a few years [a speck of dust on eternity's timeline]. There was an elder and his wife and two or three other families. I can honestly say we were a body. Everyone's concern was EVERYONE'S concern. The teenagers [with their very practical questions, bless their hearts!], the children and their childlike issues, all of us with our very human selves [yeah, that too!] it was truly heavenly.

Everyone was encouraged to contribute to the edifying of the body. Once in a while, another sister house-church would come fellowship with us. Space was tight but it was awesome!!

As for the 5-fold gifts: the elder had a HUGE pastoral heart. There was a godly older lady gifted with prophecy. The other house-church elder has an obvious teaching gift. You can see how it was such a treat when the two churches fellowshipped together.


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Tolu

 2015/9/3 19:02Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5085
NC, USA

 Re:

Funny I have not been in a church like you describe but I have been in two separate prayer groups with those characteristics.

Guess we were a church. :)


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Todd

 2015/9/3 19:20Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE:/// so has there been to anyone's knowledge a church that preserved and operated in the apostolic traditions left to us?///

I have been wrestling with this type of issue for a while now,
And I am becoming convinced that there is not a recorded history of a perfect apostolic succesion.

What was never written or what has been destroyed, We will never know in this life time.

The Scripture speaks of the Church as a Body, the Body has one Head the head controls each member, your right hand does not control your left hand nor does your right eye rule over your left eye nor is one above another.
All members are in subjection to the Head not to each other.

But much of church history seems (based from my study thus far)
to present a different paradigm one that more alighns with a paramid as we see with corporations : an Ecclesiastical hierarchy system.

I do not know what is everyones thoughts ?







 2015/9/3 19:57Profile





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