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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What is love???

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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

No adenoids, no sweat, not even a glow...
but we are not saying the same thing. I am saying that 'charity' should never have been used in 1 Cor 13. If this is what you are saying, we agree, but I think not.

adenoids???
a mass of enlarged lymphatic tissue between the back of the nose and the throat, often hindering speaking and breathing in the young.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/5/8 12:10Profile









 Re: Does it matter?

Charity, Agape, Love, does it really matter? We have the knowledge of this written word, but is it streaming from our innermost being, are we experincing it?

 2005/5/8 17:23









 Re: Phil

I'm saying that to my understanding of what the Gospel message is all about and that fruit which out of the fountain of love must grow is love that is expressed in our actions and service to other saints first, and then to all men. Given a choice of two words, love/charity, I feel that charity best communicates that doctrine.

One of the griefs on my heart is that far too many in this hour think that love is a state of amoristic euphoria inside the heart. Love can be expressed without feelings. But what is the value of love that has no expression of itself?

I certainly respect your entitlement to your viewpoint. I just respectfull disagree. That is not to say in any way that I think any less of you (not that my opion matters) as a teacher. I do not. I believe you have the anointing of a teacher and you have obviously studied to show your self approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed. I am continually blessed by your knowledge and teaching. Thank you for being here.

In Him,

Lahry

 2005/5/8 17:53
ravin
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Joined: 2004/5/6
Posts: 309
Washington st. u.S. A.

 Re: What is love???

1 John 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

 2005/5/9 3:05Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
One of the griefs on my heart is that far too many in this hour think that love is a state of amoristic euphoria inside the heart. Love can be expressed without feelings. But what is the value of love that has no expression of itself?


I certainly share this view. Many years ago I was talking to a missionary with Wycliffe Bible Translators. He said, " we don't have a word for love in the language I am working with'. I said; "neither do we".

Quote:
Given a choice of two words, love/charity, I feel that charity best communicates that doctrine.

God so loved [u]that[/u]... Real 'love' always has a consequence, always has a 'that'. I don't want to leave the word 'love' beached without its absolutely inevitable expression in 'giving'. Love without giving is not love; it is sentiment.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/5/9 3:20Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
God so loved that... Real 'love' always has a consequence, always has a 'that'. I don't want to leave the word 'love' beached without its absolutely inevitable expression in 'giving'. Love without giving is not love; it is sentiment.



Maybe this is a bad place to ask this question- but I have never fully understood what the term 'hate' means biblically. I have known it to mean 'to love less.' If we contrast the word with love and its definition- would it be possible to hate someone without in some tangable way expressing that hate? Can hatred be just a feeling and still be hatred?


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Robert Wurtz II

 2005/5/9 8:15Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Maybe this is a bad place to ask this question- but I have never fully understood what the term 'hate' means biblically. I have known it to mean 'to love less.' If we contrast the word with love and its definition- would it be possible to hate someone without in some tangable way expressing that hate? Can hatred be just a feeling and still be hatred?


I think you are probably aware of the verses...
“And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years. And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.” (Gen. 29:30-31, KJV) Where to 'love less' is regarded by God as 'hate'. I feel there is deep significance here but have not been able to fully grasp it.

The classic NT word for love is 'agape' which is an example of what my old Bible School principal, who was a classical scholar, used to call the 'Onassis Syndrome; Onassis after the ship owner. He reckoned that the 'lesser used' Greek word for love was taken over, emptied of its old cargo, and charged with a new one; hence Onassis. The NT Greek word can consequently only be defined by its NT use. The word used 'outside' the church will not steer us in the right direction. Even its use in the Septuagint is no guide to its use in the NT.

The NT definition for 'agape' is to be found in Romans 5:8 where it is referred to as 'His [u]own[/u] love' and contrasted with the most noble human 'love' of self-sacrifice for a 'good man'. God's 'own' love by contrast is revealed in the death of His Son for the sinner. If is is true that “Greater love (agape) hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:13, KJV) what shall we say of the Father's 'agape' in which He laid down the life of His Son for His enemies?

Agape, in NT Greek, is the love which spends itself for those who do not, and never will, warrant it. It is love 'in spite of' not 'because of'.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/5/9 11:19Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Thanks Bro. Ron,

Quote:
Agape, in NT Greek, is the love which spends itself for those who do not, and never will, warrant it. It is love 'in spite of' not 'because of'.



Could we say then that 'hate' is the absence of love?


The contrast you show is staggering. I had not seen it quite that way. Time for some serious reflection...


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/5/9 11:54Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Could we say then that 'hate' is the absence of love?


I don't think so, although that Genesis reference might suggest something similar. I think 'hate' is much more than an absence of 'love'. If the equation were that simple we could express 'thou shalt not have an absence of love for the LORD thy God'; which can't be right?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/5/9 12:27Profile
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

I think that hate is in many ways a part of love. You hate that which is contrary to the one you love. We hate sin because it is contrary to our Father; He hates it because it destroys us whom he loves.

Selfishness is probably the opposite of love, true love. It is love of self which is really no love at all given that love is giving. But of course such 'love' of self will ultimatley lead to the hatred of all that seeks to take the place of self on the throne. God himself ends up being hated.

This is why friendship with the world [b]is[/b] enmity with God.

 2005/5/9 12:43Profile





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