SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : You are not saved by what you do but by what Christ did

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562


 Re:

Heydave,

I accept your apology.

Quote:
You stated quite cleatly that God will not deny us.


I have never made a statement to such effect, be it explicitly or implicitly.


Quote:
Question. If someone once had saving faith in Christ, but then spent the rest of their lives as an enemy of Christ and they are saved and heaven is their destination, where is the justice and faithfulness of God to those who never professed faith in Christ and end up in hell?


Another way to look at this question is whether a Christian can lead a carnal life.

The answer is in the regeneration experience - when a Christian is born again, he no longer has a sinful nature. He is a new creation with a new heart, new identity with new impulses - and that is effected by God dwelling in Him.

This is immediately provided to every child of God, when he believes in Jesus. The Christian's identity is no longer a sinner (i.e. someone who wants to sin), but a saint (who occasionally sins).

 2015/8/31 10:40Profile









 Can you keep yourself faultless?

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

 2015/8/31 10:43
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Quote: "The verse is saying that Jesus is faithful to us, even if we are struggling with trusting Jesus fully. We are part of His body (1 Cor 12:27), and to deny us is to deny Himself".

Yuehan, forgive me if I misunderstood you, but what then did you mean by this statement, if it does not imply God cannot deny us because that would be denying himself?

Who is it speaking about when it says 'He will deny us'? Is it the same 'us' that can reign with him?

Is your position that a regenerate Christian cannot depart from the faith? In otherwords, the doctrine of perseverance (guaranteed to remain faithful)? I would not agree with that based on all the scriptures that have already been shared on the other thread and also from experience.


_________________
Dave

 2015/8/31 11:41Profile
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562


 Re:

Heydave,

Quote:
Yuehan, forgive me if I misunderstood you, but what then did you mean by this statement, if it does not imply God cannot deny us because that would be denying himself?


Jesus cannot deny us, so long as we remain part of His body. This is my understanding of 2 Tim 2:13.


Quote:
Is your position that a regenerate Christian cannot depart from the faith? In otherwords, the doctrine of perseverance (guaranteed to remain faithful)?


I actually don't know, which is why I was hoping to learn more about this in the other "once saved always saved" thread (which unfortunately has taken an acrimonious turn).

However, I do believe that Christians can endure to the end only through God's grace. I have understanding of God's keeping at least in this context.

If Peter who knew the Lord personally could deny Him three times, I doubt any person - no matter how resolute or sincere - would be able to endure to the end by his own efforts (flesh).

And yet that's also a hopeful example - because Jesus was more than willing to restore Peter. God is indeed greater than our failings, and believing in His grace does not promote sin (Romans 6:14).

 2015/8/31 12:04Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

OSAS and other such discussions always turn acrimonious. People are too entrenched because there are verses that seem to support both sides.

I believe it is possible to "lose" one's salvation. However, I have no intention of losing mine.

I have no idea what action it would take to actually put a person over the line. Denying Christ is serious but I do think God takes circumstances into account.

My gut feeling based on scripture is that if it is indeed possible to lose salvation is that it would be exceedingly difficult to do so. There is no chance to negligently do so. I believe it would take an affirmative declaration denying Christ when not under any sort of distress, and intentionally living for the devil afterwards.


_________________
Todd

 2015/8/31 12:13Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by yuehan on 2015/8/31 12:04:08

If Peter who knew the Lord personally could deny Him three times, I doubt any person - no matter how resolute or sincere - would be able to endure to the end by his own efforts (flesh).



Who is talking about "enduring to the end", in the flesh?

I have not read where anyone is proposing that.

 2015/8/31 12:35
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562


 Re:

TMK,

Quote:
OSAS and other such discussions always turn acrimonious. People are too entrenched because there are verses that seem to support both sides.


Yes, you are right. I'm reminded of Phil 2:3.


Quote:
My gut feeling based on scripture is that if it is indeed possible to lose salvation is that it would be exceedingly difficult to do so. There is no chance to negligently do so.


I agree with you.

Having said that, Jesus did pray for Peter - that his faith would not fail. And He was confident not only in His Father's ability, but also His willingness, to answer that prayer. He goes on and says to Peter, "...when you have returned to Me" (not "if").

I don't know how this works out theologically. But I do know there is God's keeping, and we are free to pray for Him to keep us.

 2015/8/31 12:36Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by yuehan on 2015/8/31 10:40:26

Another way to look at this question is whether a Christian can lead a carnal life.



Christians can refuse to "mortify the deeds of the body"

Quote:
The answer is in the regeneration experience - when a Christian is born again, he no longer has a sinful nature. He is a new creation with a new heart, new identity with new impulses - and that is effected by God dwelling in Him.

This is immediately provided to every child of God, when he believes in Jesus. The Christian's identity is no longer a sinner (i.e. someone who wants to sin), but a saint (who occasionally sins).



What is the purpose of the cross in the Believer's life, Yuehan?

Why are we commanded to deny the flesh? Could it be that we will be destroyed if we continue to sow to the flesh? Why are we commanded to renew our mind if everything is automatic, now? Could it be that renewing our mind gives us knowledge of the battle and what it takes to win the prize?

Did we get new flesh in our regeneration too, or are we still living in a corruptible container?

Do you have a responsibility to "mortify the deeds of the body"?

Rom_8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 2015/8/31 12:40
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 562


 Re:

There are a lot of theories of flesh mortification in the other "once saved always saved" thread, but not enough practical display of that.

 2015/8/31 12:52Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Lol yuehan!


_________________
Todd

 2015/8/31 13:01Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy